Ernesto Valverde

[DonAK]

i find it really odd that the messi supporters here dont really rate EV

im curious: why? my guess is that diminishing EV's achievement suggests that the successes we had under his tenure were (really, ultimately, in the last instant) due to messi, whose last (elite) years coincided with EV

am i correct or are there other reasons?

Nope.

Just looking at the big picture and trying to be unbiased. If I was biased I'd say he's shit which is far from the truth.

In fact if you look at some of my earlier posts you would see me rooting for Ernie to be hired based on how Athletic played.

Like I said. Good manager, but not great. Not the strongest personality either.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Messi (and Suarez) has (have) proven himself under every type of manager in his prime.

EV hasn't proven himself yet that he can win big titles without Messi and other stars like Suarez.

That's all there is to it. When EV gets a job like AM or United or Chelsea and wins a league with them, he will have proved himself as an elite manager.

He won Super copa title against peak Barca in 2015, 5-1

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Nope.

Just looking at the big picture and trying to be unbiased. If I was biased I'd say he's shit which is far from the truth.

In fact if you look at some of my earlier posts you would see me rooting for Ernie to be hired based on how Athletic played.

Like I said. Good manager, but not great. Not the strongest personality either.

The last big titles we won were the la liga titles and who was the coach.....EV. EV was fired when barca was at the top in league, we thought it's normal to win la liga titles and didn't appreciate them....

 

[OGbarca]

He won Super copa title against peak Barca in 2015, 5-1

good point!

i think he did a fine job with Athletic

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

good point!

i think he did a fine job with Athletic

yeah but somehow some guys don't want to accept it

 

[DonAK]

Ernie wasn't able to do much in terms of developing players, have a stronger personality to control the dressing room and demand proper signings from the management/board, and was simply not up to task at the biggest stage back to back. Players at fault too obviously, but a great manager should get past a Liverpool team without several key players with that Barcelona team even if it was past its prime. Roma too.

On top of all that he simply doesn't have the resume to suggest he's a great manager. I'm sorry but those are facts.

Athletic were good under him and are good now under Marcelino who by the way also won a Copa del Rey trophy with Valencia against Barcelona.

Same level as Ernie though. Good, but not great.

 

[DonAK]

Marcelino actually beat us in the CDR final with Ernie as our manager.

 

[KingLeo10]

Ernie fans count his supercup v Barca from 2015 but when we mention the 1-5 beatdown in the supercup v ZZ RM, it's "it was just a glorified friendly". Can't have it both ways.

When you have to do this many backflips to defend him, he's just not elite. He's good, but not a manager who will be the reason you win big trophies. As it stands.

 

[DonAK]

I mean we almost won La Liga last season, we definitely had a chance to do. With a much worse squad under Koeman and a Messi past his best.

Valverde deserves some credit for those titles, but we were the best team in the league with Messi playing at a very, very high level.

 

[OGbarca]

Ernie wasn't able to do much in terms of developing players, have a stronger personality to control the dressing room and demand proper signings from the management/board, and was simply not up to task at the biggest stage back to back. Players at fault too obviously, but a great manager should get past a Liverpool team without several key players with that Barcelona team even if it was past its prime. Roma too.

On top of all that he simply doesn't have the resume to suggest he's a great manager. I'm sorry but those are facts.

Athletic were good under him and are good now under Marcelino who by the way also won a Copa del Rey trophy with Valencia against Barcelona.

Same level as Ernie though. Good, but not great.

as opposed to who, tho? ev did better (and i mean a whole lot better) than anyone else who we tried in this period up until now, and even Xavi hasnt won anything.

i think these criticisms of EV are fair and basically correct, but in the context of what was possible at the time and what the alternatives were i think that despite these issues which you correctly point out, he did phenomenally-- ie better than simply 'good'

 

[OGbarca]

Ernie fans count his supercup v Barca from 2015 but when we mention the 1-5 beatdown in the supercup v ZZ RM, it's "it was just a glorified friendly". Can't have it both ways.

When you have to do this many backflips to defend him, he's just not elite. He's good, but not a manager who will be the reason you win big trophies. As it stands.

ive never discounted that defeat and at least domestically it was his worst performance. but if we are going to suffer big defeats to rivals, id rather do it in the context of a SC than in a proper league clasico

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Ernie fans count his supercup v Barca from 2015 but when we mention the 1-5 beatdown in the supercup v ZZ RM, it's "it was just a glorified friendly". Can't have it both ways.

When you have to do this many backflips to defend him, he's just not elite. He's good, but not a manager who will be the reason you win big trophies. As it stands.

You forgot KL dude, the 5-1 loss to ZZ Real were two of EV's first games at Barca... we can't expect from any coach in the world to transform a team within a few weeks

 

[DonAK]

as opposed to who, tho? ev did better (and i mean a whole lot better) than anyone else who we tried in this period up until now, and even Xavi hasnt won anything.

i think these criticisms of EV are fair and basically correct, but in the context of what was possible at the time and what the alternatives were i think that despite these issues which you correctly point out, he did phenomenally-- ie better than simply 'good'

Lucho was a better manager than EV.

But I don't understand your point. We haven't done a good job hiring managers in general after Guardiola left. We've probably had chances at landing an elite manager but didn't attempt to hire any.

That's on the last board.

Valverde being better than Setien, Tata doesn't make him a great or an elite manager.

Like I said....Athletic are doing very well under Marcelino right now and Marcelino beat us in the Copa del Rey final with Valencia whilst Valverde was our manager. Does that also make him a great one then? Not really.

Being good isn't a bad thing. There's a lot of bad managers out there.

But you have to separate good from great and/or elite.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Marcelino actually beat us in the CDR final with Ernie as our manager.

this defeat was after the 0-4 loss against Liverpool....team was mentally destroyed, can't blame EV for that

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I mean we almost won La Liga last season, we definitely had a chance to do. With a much worse squad under Koeman and a Messi past his best.

Valverde deserves some credit for those titles, but we were the best team in the league with Messi playing at a very, very high level.

in the years of EV we played against peak Real