Frenkie de Jong

[Raketa10]

So, people were saying here how Frenkie and De Light are no brainers.
But that operation for 2 first years costs=246M for only the first two years.

There is no way in hell we'll risk that much. To be honest that would be irresponsible from our board. IMHO if those numbers are true we should definitely go for Rabiot and forget about De Jong. It's just way to risky considering the fact we can get Rabiot for free. This is not a Playstation, you can seriously ruin the club with that kind of long term spending.

 

[VN10]

There is no way in hell we'll risk that much. To be honest that would be irresponsible from our board. IMHO if those numbers are true we should definitely go for Rabiot and forget about De Jong. It's just way to risky considering the fact we can get Rabiot for free. This is not a Playstation, you can seriously ruin the club with that kind of long term spending.

Those numbers aren't correct. All of those numbers have been exaggerated purposefuly, BBZ's trademark, to support his opinion.

BZZ made mistakes regarding:
- Salary calculation for the club (costs for the club are not a salary x 2)
- The height of the salary (are you insane?)
- Agent fee's (Raiola is not his agent)

Besides, why is there only direct costs in there? Why is there no direct income related to the players?
A very very one sided take on this transfer story.

Didnt we pay 140m for Coutinho, who was at the time 4 years older than Frenkie and 6 years older than De Ligt.

Investments always come with risk, but it is not like bringing in two of the biggest talents worldwide (and 'unique' players) is more of a risk than spending 100m+ on a liability like Dembele or on a player like Countinho.

Oh and cut the crap regarding 'how many years' do we need to wait for De Ligt to be starting 11 material. I'm going to break that bubble for you: he will walk into Barca's starting 11. De Ligt > Pique and Lenglet.

 

[Newcomer]

Because players are usually NOT criminals and are normal people.
Greedy and spoiled, but semi-normal people.

On the other hand, Barto, Rosell, Psg's owner, Perez and guys are surely no rookies or naive kids.
I don't think that Frenkie and similar guys can play a fair game against them and asking the insane wages, a good contract clauses and similar.
Big clubs and their owners would screw you ower with low wages, high release clause and other things.

So, basically, to negotiate with those criminals (club's owners), the only solution is to hire another criminal (agents) and then those two criminals are having a huge battle and you (as a player) will get a huge wage in the end, and your criminal agent will get 10M commission fee.

In short: if Frenkie handled the deal himself (or with his dad), Psg's or Barca's criminals would screw him over.
This way, it is a win-win: a club gets a player, a player gets insane wages, an agent gets 10M in his pocket for arranging a deal.

You, as a player, naive, rookie kid, you can't negotiate with criminals.
They'll eat you alive.

All in all, it is fair to assume that:
Frenkie's fee is at least 75M
His agent is probably asking around 10M for himself
And Frenkie's wages are 8M Net.

De Light's fee is around 75M.
His agent is asking for 10+ M (someone mentioned that sum on previous pages).
De Light is asking for 11M Net.
And a starting spot in that team, aged 19.

Now, when you sum this all:
Is Rabiot:
1. coming for free (no transfer fee)
2. asking for 10M Net
3. and a 10M sign on fee
= SUCH a cancerous deal, as it looked like a few days ago?

Some guys were making maths regarding Rabiot, like:
20M gross
If he stays for 2 years, that is 20+20M spent plus 10M sign on fee=50M invested for 2 years, if he fails here.

Fine, let's check Frenkie's 2 years:
75M fee
10M to agent
16M gross per year.
For 2 years, if he fails=117 M invested

De Light, the same story:
75M Fee
10+ for his agent
22M gross
= 129M invested in 2 years if he fails

So, people were saying here how Frenkie and De Light are no brainers.
But that operation for 2 first years costs=246M for only the first two years.

A part of money will be returned from their sale.
But still, are you THAT sure that BOTH of them will be gamechangers already in the first 2 years here?
If someone will reply: De Light is a longterm investment, he will be good after 3-4 years:
Waiting for him for 2 years costs=129M
Waiting for him for 3 years costs=151M
Waiting for him for 4 years costs=173M without him signing a better contract

On the other hand, Lenglet, who is ready right away, was paid 35M euros and has low wages.
Investment in him until the moment when he is ready=was slightly above 40M.

When will De Light be ready? After 130, 150 or 170M invested in him?

In this moment, I would still take Lenglet over him.

With FFP, clubs are not calculating costs that way.


The total cost is amortized over the years of contract.

With your numbers, Rabiot would cost 22 M/year for FFP.

de Jong would cost 33 M/year.

Basically, for the club, it is a 50% increase in cost to gamble on de Jong than in Rabiot.

Also, if they were to be sold after two years, you need to sell Rabiot for 6 M (you are not paying his salary anymore) to be level in FFP context.

For de Jong, you need to sell him for 51 M to be level in FFP context.

So, the risk is way lower with a purchase like Rabiot financially speaking.

 

[Nothanks]

i mean people act like de jong going to PSG is the worst career move ever, in 4 years if they continue to spend like they are and find talents it wont be hard to believe they might be a top 4 favorites for the CL

then de jong's move would be looked as a smart one if that's the case.
so he gets paid and goes to a project, not like he is going to China and not even inserting himself in the highest competition.

 

[Raketa10]

Those numbers aren't correct. All of those numbers have been exaggerated purposefuly, BBZ's trademark, to support his opinion.

BZZ made mistakes regarding:
- Salary calculation for the club (costs for the club are not a salary x 2)
- The height of the salary (are you insane?)
- Agent fee's (Raiola is not his agent)

Besides, why is there only direct costs in there? Why is there no direct income related to the players?
A very very one sided take on this transfer story.

Didnt we pay 140m for Coutinho, who was at the time 4 years older than Frenkie and 6 years older than De Ligt.

Investments always come with risk, but it is not like bringing in two of the biggest talents worldwide (and 'unique' players) is more of a risk than spending 100m+ on a liability like Dembele or on a player like Countinho.

Oh and cut the crap regarding 'how many years' do we need to wait for De Ligt to be starting 11 material. I'm going to break that bubble for you: he will walk into Barca's starting 11. De Ligt > Pique and Lenglet.

You can not compare Coutinho with those two youngsters. They are big talents but Cou was already a world class when we signed him. Dembouz was a huge risk and we can't risk like that with every single signing. I also don't agree that De Ligt is better than Pique and Lenglet at the moment, no to mention Umtiti is a true world class when healthy. His potential is HUGE and he could surpass those three but he still needs time to become a world class player.

 

[Jombi]

I have no idea what are you asking me with this post.
About De Light, that user Newcomer has posted that De Light asked 11M NET from Psg, or something like that.

I am asking you to use your critical thinking skills for a moment. 22m per year is more than De Bruyne, Hazard, Kane and Pogba get, the biggest superstars in the EPL. De Ligt is a young cb from a garbage league with almost no marketing value (so he wont generate lots of revenues for the club to justify his wage). Why do you simply believe this to be true, just because someone said it?

 

[Newcomer]

I am asking you to use your critical thinking skills for a moment. 22m per year is more than De Bruyne, Hazard, Kane and Pogba get. De Ligt is a young cb from a garbage league with almost no marketing value (so he wont generate lots of revenues for the club to justify his wage). Why do you simply believe this to be true, just because someone said it?

He has the hype, all the big clubs are after him and there is Raiola.

Just look at Donnarumma, very young but already insane salary for his position (and Milan is even paying 1 M/year for his brother in order to seal the deal). This is just Raiola things.

 

[Jombi]

He has the hype, all the big clubs are after him and there is Raiola.

Just look at Donnarumma, very young but already insane salary for his position (and Milan is even paying 1 M/year for his brother in order to seal the deal). This is just Raiola things.

I dont believe it for a second. Donnarumma earns a small fraction of what De Ligt supposedly demands. Pogba is Raiola's biggest star and a kid from a garbage league with no real marketing power demands significantly more than him?

 

[George_Costanza]

Because players are usually NOT criminals and are normal people.
Greedy and spoiled, but semi-normal people.

On the other hand, Barto, Rosell, Psg's owner, Perez and guys are surely no rookies or naive kids.
I don't think that Frenkie and similar guys can play a fair game against them and asking the insane wages, a good contract clauses and similar.
Big clubs and their owners would screw you ower with low wages, high release clause and other things.

So, basically, to negotiate with those criminals (club's owners), the only solution is to hire another criminal (agents) and then those two criminals are having a huge battle and you (as a player) will get a huge wage in the end, and your criminal agent will get 10M commission fee.

In short: if Frenkie handled the deal himself (or with his dad), Psg's or Barca's criminals would screw him over.
This way, it is a win-win: a club gets a player, a player gets insane wages, an agent gets 10M in his pocket for arranging a deal.

You, as a player, naive, rookie kid, you can't negotiate with criminals.
They'll eat you alive.

All in all, it is fair to assume that:
Frenkie's fee is at least 75M
His agent is probably asking around 10M for himself
And Frenkie's wages are 8M Net.

De Light's fee is around 75M.
His agent is asking for 10+ M (someone mentioned that sum on previous pages).
De Light is asking for 11M Net.
And a starting spot in that team, aged 19.

Now, when you sum this all:
Is Rabiot:
1. coming for free (no transfer fee)
2. asking for 10M Net
3. and a 10M sign on fee
= SUCH a cancerous deal, as it looked like a few days ago?

Some guys were making maths regarding Rabiot, like:
20M gross
If he stays for 2 years, that is 20+20M spent plus 10M sign on fee=50M invested for 2 years, if he fails here.

Fine, let's check Frenkie's 2 years:
75M fee
10M to agent
16M gross per year.
For 2 years, if he fails=117 M invested
.

Where do I have to start BBZ?

First, if you are a good player, you don’t need someone to sell you on your behalf. Good offers will come automatically. I only think average players would like a smart agent to promote them to other clubs. Someone like Rabiot may need a good agent to promote him to other clubs and negotiate fees and salaries. Someone like FDJ don’t need that, you will have many clubs chasing him. All he has to do is compare the offers and term sheets. A star in top companies don’t need a head hunter to promote him, he will get calls from competitors and other companies to offer him a better deal.

What players like FDJ needs is an agent who can do PR and promote him for other purposes. Just like what Mendes does for CR7, pushing for Ballon d’Or, promote his image, make him look like a decent man, involve him in charities, negotiate sponsor deals and control any damage done by him.

Now about the numbers you have above.

First I don’t agree with what FDJ is asking for salary but this is a price we are paying now for sticking our noses into PSG affair yet again. This is happing almost every summer. It’s like Barto and the board are looking for emotional release and that getting retribution will help us feel better. PSG always has an answer. Is trying to sign FDJ related to our acquisition of Rabiot? Maybe yes or maybe no, but I attend to think it’s yes.

Let's calculate the numbers again and I have posted this before. (did you notice you have calculated net for Rabiot and gross for FDJ?) Cheeky!

Rabiot:
10m salary
15m Bonus signing (His mother asked for 15m, not 10m)
50+15= 65m

FDJ
8m salary
75m siting fee
5m agent fee -agent fee usually between 2-5%, only a few agents got more than that because they got paid from different parties. i.e Raiola’s Pogba deal was a unique situation because he got paid by United, Juventus, and Pogba.

40+75+5= 120m

My opinion, I would walk away from both deals but to save 55m and get an average player is also something we have done before and it didn’t work. Eventually, we overpaid Coutinho and Demeble. Coutinho wasn’t worth more than 90m but we have paid 160m because of the circumstances that Barca created. Now, we created another circumstance with PSG, hence FDJ price went substantially up.

 

[Porque]

Players need agents.

https://www.pulse.ng/sports/footbal...he-almost-set-his-former-club-auxerre/tr75n2n

[Taribo] West said he signed the contract out of desperation of playing in Europe and he was earning so low which he compared to playing 'for free'.

"I played in Auxerre for free," West said at Footballers Connect, a conference aimed at educating aspiring footballers amongst others and as quoted by Goal.

"I was playing under a contract for five years without knowing the content and conditions binding the contract.

"After the third year, Arsenal, Juventus, Glasgow Rangers and Sevilla, Betis came for me," he added.

"I went to the coach starting that I wanted to leave but he sat me down and showed me my contract terms with Auxerre. I saw the details of what I had signed. Where my fellow defenders were earning as high as 120,000 French francs, I was going home with 3000 French francs.

"I wanted to set Auxerre on fire that day. Immediately, I called my manager who was turning me left and right [while] enjoying himself in Senegal."


---

I recall a kid in Asia (can't give specific details unfortunately) signed a deal then got fired when the GM saw him for the first time at training and didn't like him. He was left stranded with promised flights home revoked. Long story short, the agent done some calls, found all the mainstream media had blacklisted the story for fear of credentials, and had to find a creative solution which made the club book the kid a flight home within 24 hours.

 

[Sorin]

Let's say that the players know what their doing, they should still solely focus on training and playing. They don't have time to negotiate contracts with several clubs at a time. That's just impossible. Agents are travelling everywhere, they present sponsorship possibilities to the players, they sign deals all over the world when the players can't. They are necessary for their own benefit.

 

[Newcomer]

First I don’t agree with what FDJ is asking for salary but this is a price we are paying now for sticking our noses into PSG affair yet again. This is happing almost every summer. It’s like Barto and the board are looking for emotional release and that getting retribution will help us feel better. PSG always has an answer. Is trying to sign FDJ related to our acquisition of Rabiot? Maybe yes or maybe no, but I attend to think it’s yes.

Sorry to break the nice story-telling but PSG are not buying players out of revenge for Barca.

PSG had tried to buy Neymar the year before he actually came. It just happened you were in for Verratti some weeks before it unfolded for the auriverde.

PSG is monitoring the situation of de Jong and de Ligt since at least a year.
https://twitter.com/parisunited6/status/1019562568225042432

Paris was already meeting with his agent in the summer transfer.

The real truth is Barça and PSG both want to win everything. Thus, they want the best player available at any position. This is why they end up bidding for the same players and the good players from each other.

 

[Raketa10]

Where do I have to start BBZ?

First, if you are a good player, you don’t need someone to sell you on your behalf. Good offers will come automatically. I only think average players would like a smart agent to promote them to other clubs. Someone like Rabiot may need a good agent to promote him to other clubs and negotiate fees and salaries. Someone like FDJ don’t need that, you will have many clubs chasing him. All he has to do is compare the offers and term sheets. A star in top companies don’t need a head hunter to promote him, he will get calls from competitors and other companies to offer him a better deal.

What players like FDJ needs is an agent who can do PR and promote him for other purposes. Just like what Mendes does for CR7, pushing for Ballon d’Or, promote his image, make him look like a decent man, involve him in charities, negotiate sponsor deals and control any damage done by him.

Now about the numbers you have above.

First I don’t agree with what FDJ is asking for salary but this is a price we are paying now for sticking our noses into PSG affair yet again. This is happing almost every summer. It’s like Barto and the board are looking for emotional release and that getting retribution will help us feel better. PSG always has an answer. Is trying to sign FDJ related to our acquisition of Rabiot? Maybe yes or maybe no, but I attend to think it’s yes.

Let's calculate the numbers again and I have posted this before. (did you notice you have calculated net for Rabiot and gross for FDJ?) Cheeky!

Rabiot:
10m salary
15m Bonus signing (His mother asked for 15m, not 10m)
50+15= 65m

FDJ
8m salary
75m siting fee
5m agent fee -agent fee usually between 2-5%, only a few agents got more than that because they got paid from different parties. i.e Raiola’s Pogba deal was a unique situation because he got paid by United, Juventus, and Pogba.

40+75+5= 120m

My opinion, I would walk away from both deals but to save 55m and get an average player is also something we have done before and it didn’t work. Eventually, we overpaid Coutinho and Demeble. Coutinho wasn’t worth more than 90m but we have paid 160m because of the circumstances that Barca created. Now, we created another circumstance with PSG, hence FDJ price went substantially up.

We can argue if Rabiot suits us or not, or is his personality toxic or not, but in the current market 60 or 65 mil trough 5 years is more than fair for a player of his level and experience. I am a big FDJ fan but let's be fair here he is still not a world class player and no one can claim with 100% certainty he will be. If we decide to buy him we are buying a huge potential but we also risk a big amount of money. Something similar we did with Dembele and we are still not sure how will that end up. If I had to choose I would choose FDJ but financially Rabiot is a much safer option and that's a fact. Then there is also a fact that no one knows current state of our finances, maybe we simply can't afford to pay 75 mil for FDJ right now.

 

[Jombi]

We can argue if Rabiot suits us or not, or is his personality toxic or not, but in the current market 60 or 65 mil trough 5 years is more than fair for a player of his level and experience.

I like Rabiot and think he is a good player, but him earning more than Pogba, De Bruyne, Hazard, Salah, Aguero and Kane (who all earn between 7m and 10m euros net) is not "more than fair" for a player of his level and experience.

 

[Raketa10]

I like Rabiot and think he is a good player, but him earning more than Pogba, De Bruyne, Hazard, Salah, Aguero and Kane (who all earn between 7m and 10m euros net) is not "more than fair" for a player of his level and experience.

I agree but those players were not signed for free and they were signed few years ago, during that time market went nuts. There is also a fact that expense is expense. We can call it a salary or a buying fee. But money is money it's just the way it's being allocated. Let's say his fair salary should be 6 or 7 that's 3 or 4 mil difference and on a 5 year basis it's 15 or 20 mil. So let's go with 20 mil difference. Would you say if he was under contract that 20 mil buying fee for Rabiot and a salary of 6 mil is fair? I am sure you would and that's again 50 mil without that rumored 10 or 15 mil signing fee.