Frenkie de Jong

[te amo barca]

Injured for the next 2 games

 

[mc_lovin]

Would really love to hear some suggestions which players looked good in big games recently.

If none did it's maybe a systemic issue? Or is that too wild of a guess?

 

[BBZ8800]

Would really love to hear some suggestions which players looked good in big games recently.

If none did it's maybe a systemic issue? Or is that too wild of a guess?

There is always an option that our whole team is Uefa cup level and that none of them were good in big games for a reason.

Majority of our players:
1. are either done (Busi, Pique)
2. bad fits (Coutinho, Dembele, Griezmann, even Frenkie)
3. or meh and overrated

The only player who is good might be Pedri, but for me, even he doesn't fit on any position.
So, that's it about our team.

 

[BBZ8800]

For example:

Mats = would Bayern, City, Real, Liverpool take him? No
Pique = finished
Eric = is he a player for top teams? No
Araujo = hard to tell
Roberto as a RB = midtable level
Dest = midtable
Alba = finished
Umtiti = finished due to injuries
Busi = finished
Riki = segunda level
Gavi = too early to say
Roberto as a CM = midtable at best
Frenkie = a bad fit, a questionable world class quality
Pedri = hyped for now, time will tell on which midfield position he can play
Cou = a bad fit and questionable for majority of fans
Depay = budget Uefa cup level attacker
Braithwaite = midtable level at best
Luuk = questionable for midtable tams-level
Dembele = dumb and forever injured, bad professionalism
Griezmann while here = a bad fit
Messi while here = finished, almost retired
Yusuf = Asutrian league level
Aguero = semi retired

So, McLovin, when you say: which of our players looked good in big games? = it doesn't say much
Also: saying how Frenkie was our best midfielder also doesn't say much because we are Uefa cup level: Busi, Riki, Pjanic, Cou, Frenkie, kid Pedri

 

[Porque]

Get ball.
Hold R1 and right.
Get tackled.
Hold R1 and left.
Make foul.

FdJ in a nutshell.

 

[jamrock]

Get ball.
Hold R1 and right.
Get tackled.
Hold R1 and left.
Make foul.

FdJ in a nutshell.

Lol 😂

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

For example:

Mats = would Bayern, City, Real, Liverpool take him? No
Pique = finished
Eric = is he a player for top teams? No
Araujo = hard to tell
Roberto as a RB = midtable level
Dest = midtable
Alba = finished
Umtiti = finished due to injuries
Busi = finished
Riki = segunda level
Gavi = too early to say
Roberto as a CM = midtable at best
Frenkie = a bad fit, a questionable world class quality
Pedri = hyped for now, time will tell on which midfield position he can play
Cou = a bad fit and questionable for majority of fans
Depay = budget Uefa cup level attacker
Braithwaite = midtable level at best
Luuk = questionable for midtable tams-level
Dembele = dumb and forever injured, bad professionalism
Griezmann while here = a bad fit
Messi while here = finished, almost retired
Yusuf = Asutrian league level
Aguero = semi retired

So, McLovin, when you say: which of our players looked good in big games? = it doesn't say much
Also: saying how Frenkie was our best midfielder also doesn't say much because we are Uefa cup level: Busi, Riki, Pjanic, Cou, Frenkie, kid Pedri

If you put it like this, would you want to keep Koeman? He has bad lineup, what can he do?

 

[BBZ8800]

If you put it like this, would you want to keep Koeman? He has bad lineup, what can he do?

You know that I am more pessimistic (or realistic maybe?) than majority of our fans and I think that there is no happy ending anytime soon.

1. our club is chaotic, not as well organized as let's say Bayern, Real, Juventus
2. other big clubs have way more money: Psg&City and all top EPL teams
3. in the past, when we were on top, it was due to money (buying Rivaldo, R9, Ronaldinho) or getting lucky with insane players (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi)
= now we don't have money, Messi happens once in 100 years or even less. Xavi-Iniesta happens also once in a century
4. on top of that, there is a huge problem = what is our future style?
1) should we eternally follow Pep?
2) or move to something different?
But fans, the board and the way how La Masia is raising kids are nowhere near ready to move forward, so we are stuck with weak copies of Pep's style with average players, bad coaches, no money and 10 years after the system stopped working.

When you sum it all, our current state is more or less a reality.
A better coach (who? Pep and Klopp) might improve some things, but probably not too much.

The same as how I said that prime Neymar was 2015 and how other eras of his career were meh and his real state is not 2015 but something in the middle, well our fans are doing the same with Barca.
Our all time highs were 2006 and Pep's era, who were overlapping with 50% of players.
Remainder of our history was quite meh.
Yet, for a lot of fans, Pep's era is something normal or expected, something which is our real level and which we could reach again here and there.
But reality is: even with money, pre Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we were usually dancing between eternal group stage KO exits in 90s, some league titles and low times like in 80s or in Gaspart's era when we were as bad as today.

So, instead of trying to replicate 2006 or Pep's era, our future will probably be somewhere inbetween Gaspart's era (or today) and between Van Gaal's league titles.
CLs are not on a table for a long time.
We will be 4th or we will fight for a title in very good seasons.

To reach heights of 2006, we will need 10 years of hard work, a lot of money, lots of lucky transfers and a luck with La Masia.

When you sum it all, lower your expectations.
Be ready for a decade of mediocricy and not a decade of domination (how we like to joke).

Again, 4 key problems are:
1. Barca are chaotic, emotional and obssessed with independency issues
2. we are broke
3. La Masia is stuck in 2008
4. we don't have a clue how to play and what is our future

Even if you bring a new coach:
1. Barca will still be cahotic
2. we will still be broke
3. La Masia kids will still be 168cm tall who never shoot or defend

Other teams in the world (except Ajax) are not tied with their history and with their playing style.
Bayern always play German hardworking football, but they can easily change style from long balls, counters to Pep's TikiTaka.
EPL teams moved from 442, wing style and crosses to Barca-type of possession football.
Juve can play Italian football, ugly football, possession football.
Yet, Barca can't do that.
We are forced to stick to our roots, play only one way, raise kids in only one way.

So, you see, if other teams had Frenkie, they could easily switch to let's say direct football and 4231.
Yet, at Barca, anything except 433 is blasphemy.
Anything except 100 triangles per match is blasphemy.
Crossing, long balls, desperate longshots are a big no here.
We need to die in beauty, technique, triangles, wow goals etc.

We are slaves of our history and success.
And a current broke, chaotic club and the board surely won't solve it anytime soon.

So, sit down, relax and don't expect too much.

And no, Fati-Pedri and co won't bring us a decade of dominance.
If we'll win La Liga here and there, that will be more than expected.

 

[ajnotkeith]

You know that I am more pessimistic (or realistic maybe?) than majority of our fans and I think that there is no happy ending anytime soon.

1. our club is chaotic, not as well organized as let's say Bayern, Real, Juventus
2. other big clubs have way more money: Psg&City and all top EPL teams
3. in the past, when we were on top, it was due to money (buying Rivaldo, R9, Ronaldinho) or getting lucky with insane players (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi)
= now we don't have money, Messi happens once in 100 years or even less. Xavi-Iniesta happens also once in a century
4. on top of that, there is a huge problem = what is our future style?
1) should we eternally follow Pep?
2) or move to something different?
But fans, the board and the way how La Masia is raising kids are nowhere near ready to move forward, so we are stuck with weak copies of Pep's style with average players, bad coaches, no money and 10 years after the system stopped working.

When you sum it all, our current state is more or less a reality.
A better coach (who? Pep and Klopp) might improve some things, but probably not too much.

The same as how I said that prime Neymar was 2015 and how other eras of his career were meh and his real state is not 2015 but something in the middle, well our fans are doing the same with Barca.
Our all time highs were 2006 and Pep's era, who were overlapping with 50% of players.
Remainder of our history was quite meh.
Yet, for a lot of fans, Pep's era is something normal or expected, something which is our real level and which we could reach again here and there.
But reality is: even with money, pre Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we were usually dancing between eternal group stage KO exits in 90s, some league titles and low times like in 80s or in Gaspart's era when we were as bad as today.

So, instead of trying to replicate 2006 or Pep's era, our future will probably be somewhere inbetween Gaspart's era (or today) and between Van Gaal's league titles.
CLs are not on a table for a long time.
We will be 4th or we will fight for a title in very good seasons.

To reach heights of 2006, we will need 10 years of hard work, a lot of money, lots of lucky transfers and a luck with La Masia.

When you sum it all, lower your expectations.
Be ready for a decade of mediocricy and not a decade of domination (how we like to joke).

Again, 4 key problems are:
1. Barca are chaotic, emotional and obssessed with independency issues
2. we are broke
3. La Masia is stuck in 2008
4. we don't have a clue how to play and what is our future

Even if you bring a new coach:
1. Barca will still be cahotic
2. we will still be broke
3. La Masia kids will still be 168cm tall who never shoot or defend

Other teams in the world (except Ajax) are not tied with their history and with their playing style.
Bayern always play German hardworking football, but they can easily change style from long balls, counters to Pep's TikiTaka.
EPL teams moved from 442, wing style and crosses to Barca-type of possession football.
Juve can play Italian football, ugly football, possession football.
Yet, Barca can't do that.
We are forced to stick to our roots, play only one way, raise kids in only one way.

So, you see, if other teams had Frenkie, they could easily switch to let's say direct football and 4231.
Yet, at Barca, anything except 433 is blasphemy.
Anything except 100 triangles per match is blasphemy.
Crossing, long balls, desperate longshots are a big no here.
We need to die in beauty, technique, triangles, wow goals etc.

We are slaves of our history and success.
And a current broke, chaotic club and the board surely won't solve it anytime soon.

So, sit down, relax and don't expect too much.

And no, Fati-Pedri and co won't bring us a decade of dominance.
If we'll win La Liga here and there, that will be more than expected.

Nailed it

Also many of the players you listed are going to retire soon with no clear plan on how they are replaced except pray for La Masia gem. With no money and seemingly a pretty bleak La Masia crop coming through there will be more holes than a Swiss cheese in our squad, and no way to fill them.

Either we will keep signing free agents (which obviously you won't get the cream of the crop) or have to use subpar players for those positions as is being seen already with players like Lenglet, Umtiti, Demir etc making up our depth.

 

[DonAK]

@BBZ8800

What is it that you want? If all our players suck, our manager suck, and our players might perform worse because our manager suck, you still want to retain that manager?

And you're saying we shouldn't expect much, yet you're always complaining about our players?

You're basically saying everything sucks, deal with it. Yet you go against what you're saying when you're always trashing XYZ player?

That's such a depressing outlook btw.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

You know that I am more pessimistic (or realistic maybe?) than majority of our fans and I think that there is no happy ending anytime soon.

1. our club is chaotic, not as well organized as let's say Bayern, Real, Juventus
2. other big clubs have way more money: Psg&City and all top EPL teams
3. in the past, when we were on top, it was due to money (buying Rivaldo, R9, Ronaldinho) or getting lucky with insane players (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi)
= now we don't have money, Messi happens once in 100 years or even less. Xavi-Iniesta happens also once in a century
4. on top of that, there is a huge problem = what is our future style?
1) should we eternally follow Pep?
2) or move to something different?
But fans, the board and the way how La Masia is raising kids are nowhere near ready to move forward, so we are stuck with weak copies of Pep's style with average players, bad coaches, no money and 10 years after the system stopped working.

When you sum it all, our current state is more or less a reality.
A better coach (who? Pep and Klopp) might improve some things, but probably not too much.

The same as how I said that prime Neymar was 2015 and how other eras of his career were meh and his real state is not 2015 but something in the middle, well our fans are doing the same with Barca.
Our all time highs were 2006 and Pep's era, who were overlapping with 50% of players.
Remainder of our history was quite meh.
Yet, for a lot of fans, Pep's era is something normal or expected, something which is our real level and which we could reach again here and there.
But reality is: even with money, pre Messi-Xavi-Iniesta we were usually dancing between eternal group stage KO exits in 90s, some league titles and low times like in 80s or in Gaspart's era when we were as bad as today.

So, instead of trying to replicate 2006 or Pep's era, our future will probably be somewhere inbetween Gaspart's era (or today) and between Van Gaal's league titles.
CLs are not on a table for a long time.
We will be 4th or we will fight for a title in very good seasons.

To reach heights of 2006, we will need 10 years of hard work, a lot of money, lots of lucky transfers and a luck with La Masia.

When you sum it all, lower your expectations.
Be ready for a decade of mediocricy and not a decade of domination (how we like to joke).

Again, 4 key problems are:
1. Barca are chaotic, emotional and obssessed with independency issues
2. we are broke
3. La Masia is stuck in 2008
4. we don't have a clue how to play and what is our future

Even if you bring a new coach:
1. Barca will still be cahotic
2. we will still be broke
3. La Masia kids will still be 168cm tall who never shoot or defend

Other teams in the world (except Ajax) are not tied with their history and with their playing style.
Bayern always play German hardworking football, but they can easily change style from long balls, counters to Pep's TikiTaka.
EPL teams moved from 442, wing style and crosses to Barca-type of possession football.
Juve can play Italian football, ugly football, possession football.
Yet, Barca can't do that.
We are forced to stick to our roots, play only one way, raise kids in only one way.

So, you see, if other teams had Frenkie, they could easily switch to let's say direct football and 4231.
Yet, at Barca, anything except 433 is blasphemy.
Anything except 100 triangles per match is blasphemy.
Crossing, long balls, desperate longshots are a big no here.
We need to die in beauty, technique, triangles, wow goals etc.

We are slaves of our history and success.
And a current broke, chaotic club and the board surely won't solve it anytime soon.

So, sit down, relax and don't expect too much.

And no, Fati-Pedri and co won't bring us a decade of dominance.
If we'll win La Liga here and there, that will be more than expected.

I agree with this and great post. Coach itself won't fit all the issues but you have to start somewhere. Obviously, Koeman is not the answer.

We do have some talented players coming up and it gives me hope though.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

@BBZ8800

What is it that you want? If all our players suck, our manager suck, and our players might perform worse because our manager suck, you still want to retain that manager?

And you're saying we shouldn't expect much, yet you're always complaining about our players?

You're basically saying everything sucks, deal with it. Yet you go against what you're saying when you're always trashing XYZ player?

That's such a depressing outlook btw.

Our situation is maybe a bit depressing, especially compared to our success the past twenty years.

Now is our time to rebuild the club.

 

[DonAK]

Our situation is maybe a bit depressing, especially compared to our success the past twenty years.

Now is our time to rebuild the club.

Obviously, but you cannot rebuild or even try to develop any players with a manager who is utterly clueless. Players don't develop or get better playing in a broken system, if you can even call it that, and for a manager who publicly criticize them or throw them under the bus. A manager with a losing mentality.

One of the most important things when it comes to younger players is to instill a winning mentality in them too, but this guy more or less says this team is shit in every other press conference.

Doesn't matter if you bring the most talented midfielders, attackers or defenders. Neither of them will improve much under Koeman.

 

[ajnotkeith]

@BBZ8800

What is it that you want? If all our players suck, our manager suck, and our players might perform worse because our manager suck, you still want to retain that manager?

And you're saying we shouldn't expect much, yet you're always complaining about our players?

You're basically saying everything sucks, deal with it. Yet you go against what you're saying when you're always trashing XYZ player?

That's such a depressing outlook btw.

Koeman is a bad manager but sacking him and getting Xavi won't make us win LaLiga like people think. Our squad is subpar and the finances are bad, with a potential Europa League berth awaiting us. I.e our pull is shit and our players are bad so we might have a bad squad for a while if we don't get some insane La Masia prospects.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Obviously, but you cannot rebuild or even try to develop any players with a manager who is utterly clueless. Players don't develop or get better playing in a broken system, if you can even call it that, and for a manager who publicly criticize them or throw them under the bus. A manager with a losing mentality.

True. But there is not many elite managers available. If we can get someone like Ten Hag go for it. No Roberto Martinez or Xavi.