Frenkie de Jong

[JamDav1982]

Lampard was fit as fuck but he wasnt going box to box getting back to help win ball and going up and down park all day.

As he says himself he was at Chelsea given freedom to get forward. A freedom not given to box to box players like Essien.

Gerrard was powerful runner, a top defender that was agressive as anyone at both ends of park. Lampard was never that or a box to box player.

Watch interviews of players describing them. listen to Lampards own words.

 

[serghei]

Many websites mistake box to box for "gets in the box to score from midfield".

In order to be a b2b you gotta do both sides of it at a similar rate not just the offensive side.


Essien is a box 2 box mid.

Makalele was a DM.

Essien was a DM.

The only goals he scored somewhat regularly were 30m screamers because he had a tremendous thunderstrike of a shot.

 

[jamrock]

Glad many more have seen the light re Frankie, he's a likable player but I would legit bet good many if anyone shows me 20 truly WC games he's had since being here, for the money we paid for him & his wages, he's been okay a best, should be putting in WC performances every game even if he has a shit team his class would shine through & it doesn't.

3 years, 4 different coaches include his own country man and none have thought he was good enough to bench a old & slow busquets and play his "best" position.

Better to spend that money elsewhere.

 

[Temptation]

Essien was a DM.

The only goals he scored somewhat regularly were 30m screamers because he had a tremendous thunderstrike of a shot.

No. Makalele is a DM. Essien is a B2B type.

 

[Rassvet]

Here is Lampard with Gerrard talking about playing with Gerrard for England and Lampard talking about second guesing himself as used to being 'free to get forward' when cant in a two.

Lampard was never box to box he was an attacking mid with 'freedom' to get forward as he says himself.

Heard that mentioned from Lampard before he thinks England could have worked with Scholes dictating from deep, Gerard box to box and him AM to get forward.

At 7.40 Lamps discusses it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRdbUfcBPZw

Lampard was kind of between box to box and a trequarista. He wouldn't fit in a 4231 because he wasn't a 10 or a true B2B who could as one of the pivots, but being the #8 with more freedom in a 433 suited him well.

He was great for Chelsea in the system and style they played but still think he was a bit overrated and his limitations would have been more evident elsewhere as they were with England.

England would have been better off benching him and then playing a midfeild three of Scholes, Gerrard, and then someone like Carrick.

 

[JamDav1982]

Glad many more have seen the light re Frankie, he's a likable player but I would legit bet good many if anyone shows me 20 truly WC games he's had since being here, for the money we paid for him & his wages, he's been okay a best, should be putting in WC performances every game even if he has a shit team his class would shine through & it doesn't.

3 years, 4 different coaches include his own country man and none have thought he was good enough to bench a old & slow busquets and play his "best" position.

Better to spend that money elsewhere.

You have claimed this 'coaches' argument before and still not a great one.

Busi is five years older than that argument goes back to and slower than ever.. also in that time it would mean putting FDJ at DM and worse players in CM a lot of the time.

So move FDJ to DM two seasons ago and who is CM? Puig? Pjanic?

Before that? Rakitic? Vidal?

Busi at DM and FDJ in CM is better than that.

It is also an argument that could be used saying last four coaches all played FDJ in CM for most part so he must be good enough or they all played Roberto there, Rakitic before that etc.

 

[Porque]

What's a B2B in modern football anyways?

Is KdB? Or Gavi?

Before it was a guy who would run about alot but lacked the fundamentals to either create or defend.

I wouldn't say Lampard was that profile though he did get back and forward. But he leaned heavily into arriving from the second line to shoot or pass rather than the defensive side.

 

[Temptation]

Glad many more have seen the light re Frankie, he's a likable player but I would legit bet good many if anyone shows me 20 truly WC games he's had since being here, for the money we paid for him & his wages, he's been okay a best, should be putting in WC performances every game even if he has a shit team his class would shine through & it doesn't.

3 years, 4 different coaches include his own country man and none have thought he was good enough to bench a old & slow busquets and play his "best" position.

Better to spend that money elsewhere.

That entire Ajax Batch has just churned out many overhyped players who haven't lived up their billing.

Frenkie
MDL
Ziyech
Donny VDB
............

 

[DonAK]

What's a B2B in modern football anyways?

Is KdB? Or Gavi?

Before it was a guy who would run about alot but lacked the fundamentals to either create or defend.

Neither.

Kessie is one. Goretzka. Kante. Fede Valverde.

 

[jamrock]

Box to box is a player capable of playing on both side of the field.

Gerrard is the best example of a box to box player, probably the best ever in that regard if not close.

Frankie ain't no box to box, he shits the bed in the attacking 3rd of the field entirely too often.

He's a DM that can't bench old man river walk busquets, no getting around that no matter the execuses the busquets haters try to find.

 

[Temptation]

What's a B2B in modern football anyways?

Is KdB? Or Gavi?

Before it was a guy who would run about alot but lacked the fundamentals to either create or defend.

KDB is attacking mid

Gavi, haven't seen enough to comment but he's a B2B I heard(could be wrong coz this ain't my personal judgement).

 

[jamrock]

Fede Valverde is a good shut for a modern box to box & Goretzka.

Ballack box to box
Gerrard box to box.

 

[JamDav1982]

Keane and Viera were you text book box to box players.

Mobile, agressive, could defend, pass, chip in with a goal.

Master of all trades and a phsyical cunt that could mix it.

Game is different since then also so role changed a bit as cant get away with some of things like of those two used to.

 

[serghei]

What's a B2B in modern football anyways?

Is KdB? Or Gavi?

Before it was a guy who would run about alot but lacked the fundamentals to either create or defend.

It's sort of a term that defines a player that works hard in defense, but is not a DM.

Pure AMs are rare. They are generally more like no10s like Fabregas, Kaka, Ozil types.

Most players that are not DMs will be some sort of box to box types.

 

[Porque]

Right but I think the game has modernises (outside Barca ofc) that the midfielders are more multifunctional rather than having a central midfielder that covers ground and one that has more offensive traits.

So what is Frenkie? B2B? Second pivot in a double pivot that no one plays since Irrueta?