Frenkie de Jong

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serghei

Senior Member
He was doing the same at CB in preseason. I know I know he is a midfielder in a CB's body but it still shows he lacks discipline or at least understanding in how Xavi wants him to play.

Xavi prefers a more disciplined version of positional game, like Van Gaal or Rijkaard (or Lucho for that matter), probably the managers that he was most influenced by in his youth and early adulthood. He will get more fluid in time and more daring, or not, remains to be seen.

Someone more creative and revolutionary like Guardiola could get more from De Jong at DM, but he has a better player there imo in Rodri.
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Yea, good spot by [MENTION=22060]fergus90[/MENTION]. One footedness and instinct to travel with the ball at the expense of keeping position. It's as if he doesn't think in advance, only in the moment.

He is a player of action and instinct, in a position where you need to be cool-headed.

Well he can rampage forward as long as the other players know that one of them has to drop back and fill in for him in defence.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Well he can rampage forward as long as the other players know that one of them has to drop back and fill in for him in defence.

This doesn't really work though because Pedri or Gavi are not at all suited to cover at DM when De Jong goes Rambo mode. It's possible to do it with Kessie, but slim chances.

Besides, even if you can cover for him, what exactly does De Jong bring when he goes up? Not much compared with players like Pedri or even Gavi. He's claiming ground for the sake of it, because the passes aren't anything special.

This type of fluidity is incredibly hard to master. Nobody managed to do it except for Pep Barca. Other teams usually play with a disciplined DM. Another option would be to have the corresponding fullback to tuck inside. But also it's a problem because we have weak fullbacks who can't even take care of their own zone, let alone cover for others. It's one thing for Walker to do it, and another for airhead Dest.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Bottom line is when you go up and vacate your position, demanding positional adjustments from corresponding players, you better do it for good reason and with good impact. Because these types of actions usually make you as a team less compact and more disorganized.

Van Gaal I think criticized Ander Herrera for the exact same thing when he was at United. Guy went looking for the ball when manager wanted him to command his position and let the ball do the work. Opponents popped up in the holes he left behind and all defensive organization went to shit.
 
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snowy

Well-known member
This doesn't really work though because Pedri or Gavi are not at all suited to cover at DM when De Jong goes Rambo mode. It's possible to do it with Kessie, but slim chances.

Besides, even if you can cover for him, what exactly does De Jong bring when he goes up? Not much compared with players like Pedri or even Gavi. He's claiming ground for the sake of it, because the passes aren't anything special.

This type of fluidity is incredibly hard to master. Nobody managed to do it except for Pep Barca. Other teams usually play with a disciplined DM. Another option would be to have the corresponding fullback to tuck inside. But also it's a problem because we have weak fullbacks who can't even take care of their own zone, let alone cover for others. It's one thing for Walker to do it, and another for airhead Dest.

yep yep Marco Polo at PSG excels at just that :thinking:

Can boogie all night with the Emperor's concubines and be back at midfield to counter his attacks.
 

Horatio

You're welcome
Bottom line is when you go up and vacate your position, demanding positional adjustments from corresponding players, you better do it for good reason and with good impact. Because these types of actions usually make you as a team less compact and more disorganized.

Why have you never brought this up or complained about it when Puig does it?
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
I think Frenkie as CB is like Dembele situation in January.
We are just bullying him to leave, once the window is over I think he will get his fair chance.
Busi-Frenkie-Pedri trio ain't elite combo, but Idon't know if we have better one atm.
At the end I don't believe we actually have an elite midfield anyway, far from it. So solid will do
 

jamrock

Senior Member
We have the makings of an elite midfield I'd Frankie can learn to buy Dmed properly.

----kessi---de Jong---- Pedri
Would be WC.
 

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Besides, even if you can cover for him, what exactly does De Jong bring when he goes up? Not much compared with players like Pedri or even Gavi. He's claiming ground for the sake of it, because the passes aren't anything special.
He makes space and creates opportunities that weren't there before. He's not good at final ball, but has enough pre-asisists in him.
But the main problem with your assessments is, when seen in comparison with what Busquets does. Busquets wanders off as much as Dejong does, when he tries to press in the final third or on the sidelines, at which he usually fails and, when that press is broken, the center of the field becomes completely unprotected as he cannot get back into position to save his life. On the other hand, Dejong is pretty good at tracking back in time after his escapades as he has good legs and work rate. He has done some bad blunders for sure, but not even close as frequently as Busi and is mostly omnipresent, which is the very antithesis of Busquets, who can only occupy small circle in the center of field effectively, otherwise he creates gaping hole that can be penetrated with ease. His lack of mobility also makes him weak outlet for making himself available for passes and creating additional space to exploit. He just stands there in 5 meter radius and pings balls left and right, rarely having good through ball or long range pass into box. He also doesn't score goals like DJ.
 

Klysmakabouter

New member
Well he can rampage forward as long as the other players know that one of them has to drop back and fill in for him in defence.

Well he can rampage forward as long as the other players know that one of them has to drop back and fill in for him in defence.

That?s sorta what Ajax did under Ten Hag. When they bullied Benfica, Bayern, Juve and Madrid they let Frenkie rampage from deep down. Sch?ne, Mazraoui or Blind would hold the fortress. This allowed them to always have a playable option up front, because Frenkie dribbling into the lines between the opponents midfield and defense created this. He became to be known as the player who couldn?t be pressed and never played the ball back or sideways, always forward (he had a pass accuracy above 90% doing this aswell, even against CL elites).

Barca just don?t want to tactically change their way of play or sub of Busi. So they play him CM and hoped FdJ would develop as a more attacking midfielder, because he does have elite ball retention. Turns out, FdJ had way too little attacking qualities for the CM/AM roll. He lacks shooting abilities and an attacking instinct (not so weird when you figure out he played DM and CB all his life). In this role, he became mr. Ping Pong.

I still belief Frenkie is world class in the deeper playmaker / defensive midfielder roll. He still shows this at the Dutch NT often. Even at Barca, he linked nicely with Dembele and Messi in his earlier years in a deeper playmaker roll. Made him player of the season, even.

I also believe that Barca with Xavi would just rather stick with playing Busi and buy the La Liga win with just signing other players. So one way or the other, he must leave.
 
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iniestaGOAT

Senior Member
That?s sorta what Ajax did under Ten Hag. When they bullied Benfica, Bayern, Juve and Madrid they let Frenkie rampage from deep down. Sch?ne, Mazraoui or Blind would hold the fortress. This allowed them to always have a playable option up front, because Frenkie dribbling into the lines between the opponents midfield and defense created this. He became to be known as the player who couldn?t be pressed and never played the ball back or sideways, always forward (he had a pass accuracy above 90% doing this aswell, even against CL elites).

Barca just don?t want to tactically change their way of play or sub of Busi. So they play him CM and hoped FdJ would develop as a more attacking midfielder, because he does have elite ball retention. Turns out, FdJ had way too little attacking qualities for the CM/AM roll. He lacks shooting abilities and an attacking instinct (not so weird when you figure out he played DM and CB all his life). In this role, he became mr. Ping Pong.

I still belief Frenkie is world class in the deeper playmaker / defensive midfielder roll. He still shows this at the Dutch NT often. Even at Barca, he linked nicely with Dembele and Messi in his earlier years in a deeper playmaker roll. Made him player of the season, even.

I also believe that Barca with Xavi would just rather stick with playing Busi and buy the La Liga win with just signing other players. So one way or the other, he must leave.


Stop hyping up trash.
 

feggydinho

Senior Member
I think Frenkie as CB is like Dembele situation in January.
We are just bullying him to leave, once the window is over I think he will get his fair chance.
Busi-Frenkie-Pedri trio ain't elite combo, but Idon't know if we have better one atm.
At the end I don't believe we actually have an elite midfield anyway, far from it. So solid will do

I think so too, but the difference is that Xavi feels he has many midfielders to chose from and that wasn't the case with Dembele, as we created less chances without him then due to him not having a suitable replacement so we just had to play him. Would still like to see what happens if he stays and refuses to reduce his salary.
 
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