Gareth Bale

[Kerrybai]

Well yes & no due to the laws too... back in Maradona days you can easily get away with murder on the pitch ... Maradona himself was a victim when he was in Barca and we had to watch Van Basten brilliant career end shortly
While the tactical demand is a lot now , the roughness of the game was a lot harder considering you also had one less sub to make and less bench etc
As for Messi , still his teams is much stronger than so many teams.. if they can retain the ball and score more it's quite easy ..
Romero is an ok keeper .. they have some good defenders like Otamendi , Ansaldi , Garay... however as i said Messi is coming from a great football nation.. much higher than Holland who i omitted because the only highlight would be 3 finals , 1 Euro , 1 Semi , Holland infamous for internal flights but Messi is coming from a country that produced both Diego & Di Stefano , the former is viewed as god due to his WC success.. Messi must have it to override the golden boy... even if Messi club triumph override Maradona.. a WC is a WC .. ask Pele

With the greatest respect to the world cup and International football it is now second to club football. Most people hate FIFA breaks as international football has become stale and boring. Club competitions rule now, just look at the popularity of the premier league and the champions league. Messi needs a world cup to surpass Maradona in Argentina, but the rest of the world cares little about his international success as long as he keeps tearing about the CL.

 

[Beast]

With the greatest respect to the world cup and International football it is now second to club football. Most people hate FIFA breaks as international football has become stale and boring. Club competitions rule now, just look at the popularity of the premier league and the champions league. Messi needs a world cup to surpass Maradona in Argentina, but the rest of the world cares little about his international success as long as he keeps tearing about the CL.

He will be viewed like Di Stefano who won 5 CL.. one of football greats of all time .. but when people discuss who is better of all times it's always between Pele & Maradona for their world cup more than their club level
Messi is brilliant player.. i'm talking about how it will be viewed in the future... Win a world cup he will sure be on top of Pele, Maradona ... without it.. they still top him no matter how unfair that sounds but think about Di Stefano for example

 

[Kerrybai]

He will be viewed like Di Stefano who won 5 CL.. one of football greats of all time .. but when people discuss who is better of all times it's always between Pele & Maradona for their world cup more than their club level
Messi is brilliant player.. i'm talking about how it will be viewed in the future... Win a world cup he will sure be on top of Pele, Maradona ... without it.. they still top him no matter how unfair that sounds but think about Di Stefano for example

The world cup used to create legends, now its all about club football. A world cup will help cement his legacy, but it wont define it. He's only 26 and a large portion of the world footballing community already outs him above Pele and Maradona. I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

With the expansion of the Euro's to 24 teams Bale has every chance of reaching an international tournament.

 

[Beast]

The world cup used to create legends, now its all about club football. A world cup will help cement his legacy, but it wont define it. He's only 26 and a large portion of the world footballing community already outs him above Pele and Maradona. I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

With the expansion of the Euro's to 24 teams Bale has every chance of reaching an international tournament.

We'll have to disagree ... and i will just mention how Xavi , Puyol,Iniesta were viewed after dominating the International scene with Spain not for their CL conquer or Barcelona football they were all hidden under the Dinho or Messi overlooked constantly , or how a player like Zizou his club achievement was a single CL but yet among the top greats due to the world cup compared to Di Stefano who won 5 CL in a row but considered tier 2 with the likes of Cruyff (Except for personal fans )
you may think Club competition is better now because of the year to year glamour but let me tell you history doesn't remember the club level as much as it remembers the International trophies as in the World cup plain and simple
Messi now will be above Pele & Maradona for some of the current generation like all those before him from Zidane to Ronaldo etc but once the dust is settled and the thrill is gone things will be different and will be viewed as he should be

 

[suckabov]

We'll have to disagree ... and i will just mention how Xavi , Puyol,Iniesta were viewed after dominating the International scene with Spain not for their CL conquer or Barcelona football they were all hidden under the Dinho or Messi overlooked constantly , or how a player like Zizou his club achievement was a single CL but yet among the top greats due to the world cup compared to Di Stefano who won 5 CL in a row but considered tier 2 with the likes of Cruyff (Except for personal fans )
you may think Club competition is better now because of the year to year glamour but let me tell you history doesn't remember the club level as much as it remembers the International trophies as in the World cup plain and simple
Messi now will be above Pele & Maradona for some of the current generation like all those before him from Zidane to Ronaldo etc but once the dust is settled and the thrill is gone things will be different and will be viewed as he should be

"Current generation": Messi has been hailed as being above Pele and Maradone by quite a few people who don't belong to the current generation but have seen for example Maradona play, too. And by that I mean people in the football business. That wasn't the case so much for Ronaldo and Zidane. To be honest I don't know if there has ever been a player that has hyped/praised as much as Messi... Might be because I was too young, but I don't really think there has been anything like it.

I do agree with Kerry, club football is much more important today than it was in former times.

Still, I'd personally love to see Messi repeating his Barca form in a world cup, just as I'd like to see the most expensive player in history take part in one. Even if only for the joy of seeing that.

 

[Flavia]

Things also change, Beast. Nowadays, thanks to TV and internet people know more about players than back in the 70's. The wc was the competition the world used to see. This is quite different now. So I don't think what happened to di Stefano will happen to Messi, if he fails to win the wc.

 

[Meitux]

People will continue bitching if Messi is not the core of Argentina's winning if they do finally win it, so i won't even care. I would like him to win it just for some mouths to shut but still some people won't be tottaly satisfied if Messi doesn't bring outstanding performances..

 

[Beast]

"Current generation": Messi has been hailed as being above Pele and Maradone by quite a few people who don't belong to the current generation but have seen for example Maradona play, too. And by that I mean people in the football business. That wasn't the case so much for Ronaldo and Zidane. To be honest I don't know if there has ever been a player that has hyped/praised as much as Messi... Might be because I was too young, but I don't really think there has been anything like it.

I do agree with Kerry, club football is much more important today than it was in former times.

Still, I'd personally love to see Messi repeating his Barca form in a world cup, just as I'd like to see the most expensive player in history take part in one. Even if only for the joy of seeing that.

Ronaldo & Zidane did... the hype especially for Ronaldo was out of this world.. you were too young but old farts like me were speechless to see what Ronaldo could do.. even Messi can be stopped against parked buses , Ronaldo there was no stopping him he was the complete package , shooting , speed , dribbling , both feet .. doesn't matter if he was playing against a young Maldini or Blanc .. everyone suffered
And no only the young and few oldies can put him on par with Pele and Maradona.. personally i've never seen anyone like Maradona and he is better then Messi .. while you say lot say Messi need a good defense Maradona didn't need anyone whether in Napoli or Argentina.. the team Argentina fielded in 86 without their defense rock Passarella was worse than any team Argentina had in the last 7 years and like them in Napoli when all he had with 3 players... i don't want to imagine what Maradona could have done if he had Xavi-Iniesta , Pique , Puyol or even coached by Pep....
for people who were old enough for Maradona like me , Messi despite the club achievement is not on Maradona level YET
As for the Bale , no one is holding his breath on Wales making it for the World cup or Euro anytime soon..and it won't matter to anyone except those looking for a thorn in a rose... most "adults ' understand we didn't expect Liberia to be in the world cup because the WPOY George Weah was there nor expected Northern Ireland before them to be in the World cup because they had George Best ...Didn't make Best or Weah any less brilliant or followed ...

Things also change, Beast. Nowadays, thanks to TV and internet people know more about players than back in the 70's. The wc was the competition the world used to see. This is quite different now. So I don't think what happened to di Stefano will happen to Messi, if he fails to win the wc.

TV & Internet been there for more then 2 decades Flavia , still it was Fabio Cannavaro who was WPOY in 2006 and as i mentioned look at how Xavi and Iniesta were viewed before and after the Euro & WC... If the CL is a big attraction the world cup is much more global event... and it's still is a major factor for players legendary statues

 

[Beast]

People will continue bitching if Messi is not the core of Argentina's winning if they do finally win it, so i won't even care. I would like him to win it just for some mouths to shut but still some people won't be tottaly satisfied if Messi doesn't bring outstanding performances..

It's a curse he has to live with it , weather for the direct comparisons for Maradona or his own country history... He is now at the prefect age to win the WC.. Maradona did it when he was 26 too

 

[Flavia]

TV & Internet been there for more then 2 decades Flavia , still it was Fabio Cannavaro who was WPOY in 2006 and as i mentioned look at how Xavi and Iniesta were viewed before and after the Euro & WC... If the CL is a big attraction the world cup is much more global event... and it's still is a major factor for players legendary statues

The 70's was 43 years ago. And the way internet is spread today is way bigger than 20 or even 10 years ago. Streaming matches wasn't possible. It's definitely not the same. In 2003/04 almost no one had the means to watch la liga on tv like today, here in Brazil, for instance. Xavi is not seen as a genius here in Brazil, I can assure you that. Messi is. And I mean by the general public. Most don't even know who Xavi is.

 

[suckabov]

And I mean by the general public. Most don't even know who Xavi is.

Can't speak for Brazil, but I've noticed that too. Even people who don't follow football seem to know Messi, more than any other player. Also, it's quite astounding how much reception Messi gets even in parts of the world where football isn't popular at all, like in the US, he is like a football missionary there.

And of course modern social media, YouTube etc play a big role in that. Without the internet, living in Europe, I would never have known about Neymar until he joined Barca, to be honest.

 

[Decanus]

With the greatest respect to the world cup and International football it is now second to club football. Most people hate FIFA breaks as international football has become stale and boring. Club competitions rule now, just look at the popularity of the premier league and the champions league. Messi needs a world cup to surpass Maradona in Argentina, but the rest of the world cares little about his international success as long as he keeps tearing about the CL.

Guilty. I do not care at all about international competition. I only enjoy it at the club level.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Ronaldo & Zidane did... the hype especially for Ronaldo was out of this world.. you were too young but old farts like me were speechless to see what Ronaldo could do.. even Messi can be stopped against parked buses , Ronaldo there was no stopping him he was the complete package , shooting , speed , dribbling , both feet .. doesn't matter if he was playing against a young Maldini or Blanc .. everyone suffered
And no only the young and few oldies can put him on par with Pele and Maradona.. personally i've never seen anyone like Maradona and he is better then Messi .. while you say lot say Messi need a good defense Maradona didn't need anyone whether in Napoli or Argentina.. the team Argentina fielded in 86 without their defense rock Passarella was worse than any team Argentina had in the last 7 years and like them in Napoli when all he had with 3 players... i don't want to imagine what Maradona could have done if he had Xavi-Iniesta , Pique , Puyol or even coached by Pep....
for people who were old enough for Maradona like me , Messi despite the club achievement is not on Maradona level YET
As for the Bale , no one is holding his breath on Wales making it for the World cup or Euro anytime soon..and it won't matter to anyone except those looking for a thorn in a rose... most "adults ' understand we didn't expect Liberia to be in the world cup because the WPOY George Weah was there nor expected Northern Ireland before them to be in the World cup because they had George Best ...Didn't make Best or Weah any less brilliant or followed ...



TV & Internet been there for more then 2 decades Flavia , still it was Fabio Cannavaro who was WPOY in 2006 and as i mentioned look at how Xavi and Iniesta were viewed before and after the Euro & WC... If the CL is a big attraction the world cup is much more global event... and it's still is a major factor for players legendary statues

Interesting then that he never won a Champions League.

 

[AnfieldEd]

I can see both Gio's POV and the rest of you guys POV on this subject.

I still believe for Messi to cement himself as GOAT he has to win a world cup - for me. Even then he won't surpass El Diego in my mind, but that is just personal preference El Diego will always be Numero Uno for me. But in most minds after a world cup win he'd be the overwhelming No.1 for the majority of non cules.

The case for Bale too. Just because he is now most expensive footballer doesn't mean his performances for Wales will or can be any different than it was before. It is what it is. Just like Giggs and Best he'll most probably never play in a tournament but just like Giggs or Best or Rush it won't affect their legacies in the game.

As for club football and international football. I've had this debate numerous times with Gio. However I am now sided with his POV whereas I was on the opposite POV before.

I think its because I think seeing CL football year in and year out and watching the group stages. It is a fallacy that it's of great football and top matches - bar the usual group of death - more often than not I am sitting watching being completely bored off of my arse. Being totally honest.

It's only in the KO rounds when things start getting interesting and when the pressure really starts to tell and you separate the average from the good and the good from the great.

World cup out of the 32 nations has 6-7 crap nations at least but it is still the ultimate test of a player in terms of their mental capabilities and to see how the deal with pressure situations.

It's quite interesting because that view is the polar opposite of what I used to think just a few years ago. So I think watching too many shit CL games has changed my mind

But apart from CL finals and other finals domestic or european, I would say that to non hardcore football fans, that what a player does in a world cup influences their opinion and has more impact on their legacy than anything in their club career. Except for CL finals which is now just a world wide event as the world cup final.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Agree with Beast, World Cup still matters a lot. I don't think one can say international football is seconary to club football these days. In terms of popularity and viewership etc. I am pretty sure WC beats CL hands down.