Gerard Deulofeu

[KingMessi]

I didn't see much of the Messi and Neymar magic until they were down to 10 men. Just sayin.

Agreed. This game showed that, even if Suarez is misfiring right now, he brings a lot to our squad and vastly improves our game, compared to Pedro.

 

[BBZ8800]

I don't think False 9 would have worked against Atletico, their default technique is flood the middle and leave the wings open for hopeless crossing since their confident in their ariel ability, they'd just stick 2 midfielders and 2 cbs on him the entire game, double team Neymar and leave Pedro to do whatever he wanted on the RW (If we had a better RW then maybe it might change some stuff). Messi on the wing throws a huge wrench into opposition tactics cause its harder to over-mark someone on the wing and Messi dribbles better on the wing imo(Or atleast more consistently), with the space he has the opportunity to use his pace more regularly and doesnt have to worry about dropping back to defense to bring the ball up to try and create something.

Edit: Thinking about it its really just Atletico, any team that employs Simeone tactics will force us to use Messi on the wing, even regular busses like with chelsea False 9 will probably work with a good RW but atletico is different.

+1

Messi on a false nine worked a few years ago.
In the last few years with Messi in the middle and Alves on the right, we just had too many players in the middle who couldn't do anything through the ground against parked buses, and our wings attacks with Alves weren't lethal at all.

Messi at Rw brought some balance, chemistry and something new and unpredictable.
Our attacks from wings are more dangerous again. Defenders have to defend against Messi on the wing, so their bus in the middle is stretched and not that strong anymore.
So, with Messi on RW, we are dangerous both from wings, but also our attacks through the middle are much more dangerous because a CF is playing against less defenders, plus they are stretched and he (and midfielders) have much more space around the box.

Messi on a RW is the best thing that happened to our team since like 2011'

 

[BBZ8800]

Playing Messi in the center has much more value than on the wing because of the linkup with Neymar. Play him next to Neymar and the two will win the match for us by themselves, as they did last night. As far as the midfield goes, that's also Lucho's fault. Remember back when we supposedly had the best midfield in the world? We played a lot quicker then. If you think the reason we don't is the age of our players you should try taking Zubi's old spot as sporting director, as you'd be perfect.

1. Messi and Neymar will alone won matches only against crappy and midtable La Liga teams
-- against any other decent team, we will struggle if we rely (only) on their connection (Messi as a false nine and Ney on LW)
2. our system with with Messi on a false 9 stopped working around 4 Seasons ago. Pep's last Season had some problems. Tito, Tata, Lucho.
-- that system was once awesome. But that was like 7-8 years ago when teams learned how to neutralized our former 433 with Lw-Cf-Rw (Messi on Rw)
-- that 433 system started to be predictable, and Pep moved Messi in the middle to create a new system and new problems for all opponents
=> then it was a new and unpredictable system for some time, and it worked awesome for 2-3 Seasons
-- but then, the same as with a previous Messi on RW system, teams slowly started to learn how to defend against us, and this system, with Messi as a false 9, started to be easy to defend against
-- a lot of people will say that our players are older, they are not on their prime, that we don't run, press, play triangles
-- but imo, you are only as good as your opponent's allow you to be
-- the match is not ONLY about US. It is always about US, but also about our opponents
-- how good we will be, always partly depends on how will our opponents neutralize our system

-- were we awesome yesterday against Elche, or Elche is just a crap and they played with 10 men?
-- the same is with Messi on false 9. It worked in the first Seasons because teams didn't know how to defend against it
-- when Mourinho and some coaches figured out tricks, everyone started to follow him, and we were in huge troubles against any decent team

-- even if we had 28 year old Xavi, 24 year old Iniesta and 22 year old Messi, we would still struggle today with a false 9 Messi.
The age and motivation of our players is NOT the only problem.
Our system was the same and unchanged for 7 Seasons, and other teams have evolved and learned how to neutralize it.

Now, we have finally found "a new trick". And a new trick and some other new tricks will again now work for a 1-2-3 Seasons and then other teams will again learn how to neutralize the current trick.
This is why, even if you are currently winning, you always need to think about some new tactics and some new tricks for a moment when your opponents will learn how to neutralize your current tricks.

It is all about evolving and improving all the time.
This is why Pep was trying new things in his last Season. He KNEW that our current formation won't be that lethal for much long.
Sadly, Tito and Tata didn't know that.
Luckily, it seems that Lucho has now figured out that.

So, a new evolved system is always more important than a 2 men (Messi and Neymar) chemistry or than a single player's statistics.
If Lucho is smart enough, he will continue with Messi on a RW, plus he should be thinking about new "tricks" every day to offer us even more options for the future.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I am not sure why this discussion is in Gerard thread but anyway
I would agree that right now it seems we are doing better with Messi in the RW though I disagree with BBZ about the timing of it ,Messi was RW in the season we won the trio even if he rotated with Eto and Henry but we were doing those interchanges since Rijkaard days .in 09-10 he started playing centrally more ,not during all the season but it was clear he is becoming our main striker and by next season it was his only position ,in the next 2 years he was brilliant there too ,2012 is Messi best year in his career and probably his absolute peak ,sad we only won CDR back then and sometimes I wonder what if Tito and Messi was healthy and we actually had a proper transfer in 2012 what was that season gonna be like
His real struggles came in the end of 2012-2013 but it was a bit of fitness problem IMO ,last year could be the time we can say it has stopped working ,not 4 years ago IMO

 

[spark]

Starting again.

 

[KingMessi]

Starting again.

Against Valencia? Wow.

 

[KingMessi]

His setpiece delivery has been quite good. Sevilla not doing much with it though.

 

[Icarium]

pen for valencia. Parejo scores.

Deulofeu still not looking to pass that often. Wasting his talent.

Parejo scores again. Game over for sevilla. Mestella is a very tough place to win. So happy we scraped a win there.

 

[DonAK]

Really bad FK taken by him and Valencia counter attack and they score. 2-0. Dani Parejo again.

 

[messi2140]

Pen Sevilla , the mediocre refereeing in spain continues.

 

[Icarium]

Both pens feel are 50/50 for me. There was slight contact but still the fall was quite dramatic in both cases.

Bacca scores.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Not impressed with him so far at all.

 

[Icarium]

Wow another pen. Probably most clear pen of all 3.

Bacca misses. Alves 32 pens saved in his career.

 

[messi2140]

Another pen for sevilla , but a beatiful run from Deulofeu before that happened.


Bacca misses

 

[Luftstalag14]

He is definitely more defensive-minded these days. Tracking back and even tackling.