Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Do you have any actual reasons for why Pique is bad? Or just "watch other games dude"?
Gerard Piqué
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Do you have any actual reasons for why Pique is bad? Or just "watch other games dude"?
FiReFTW
Member
If your watching Barca games you should know, he makes blunders all the time and is horrible at defending, 1v1 he often gets beat by a skilled player, he can't jump, he is slow and quite often he has some wtf moments of ridicilous proportions. To every person that has a decent knowledge of football Pique is a fairly average defender at best, certainly not for Barca standards, at least not in the 1st line up, perhaps a sub. Now if you spend more time watching actual good defenders in other clubs and spent less time praising Pique simply because he is from Barca school then the difference in quality between him and a good defender would be obvious to you.
evilhita666
Barçapocalypse NOW!
I think he's been quite good too, but when he has a bad game, then it's a reaaaaally bad game... And you know how the forum works...
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Because I have free time and I like wasting it, I'm gonna do a comparison post between Pique and some of these other amazing center-backs. You can find all of this on whoscored if you don't believe my reading abilities.
-------------------------Ramos--Pepe---Koscielny---Mertesacker--Dante---Boateng---T.Silva----Kompany---Cahill--Benatia--Pique--
Tackles Per Game----------2.1----1.5------1.8---------1.2---------1.6------1.2--------1-----------2.2------1.3-----2-------1.8---
Interceptions Per Game-----2------2.2------2.8--------1.7---------1.1-------1.7-------2.3----------2-------0.8----2.6-------1.5---
Fouls Per Game------------1.6-----0.8------0.9--------0.3---------1.8-------1.3-------0.5---------0.8------0.5----1.8-------0.9---
Clearances Per Game-------4.1----4.9-------6.6--------6.2---------3.5-------3.8-------4.9---------5.7------6.9----5.6-------6.2--
Offsides Won--------------0.7-----0.7-------1---------0.8---------0.9-------1.1-------0.3---------1.2------0.7-----0.5------0.9--
Was Dribbled Per Game-----0.4-----0.4------0.3--------0.3---------0.5-------0.4-------0.4---------0.7------0.3-----0.3------0.5--
Blocked Shots Per Game----0.5-----0.7------0.8--------0.5---------0.5-------0.3-------0.8---------0.5------0.8-----0.7------0.5--
Sadly, I wasn't able to find aerial duel stats, as they aren't offered on whoscored and fourfourtwo does a match-by-match analysis, so if anyone knows those feel free to contribute. Now, onto analyzing these stats. Let me preface by saying that stats aren't everything, and please don't derive that from this post. But if we were to look at these statistics, drawn from both the consensus of top clubs like Bayern and Real Madrid and the top center-backs like Benatia or Arsenal's CBs, we see that Pique is comparable. Sure, he's not clearly above them, but he's not some MLS player either. He looks better than Bayern's two center backs, holds his own against Arsenal's, is maybe slightly worse than Real's... And then you have to look at the statistics and what they actually mean. For example, Benatia. His tackles and interceptions are pretty ridiculous, especially when compared with Gerard. But then you have to think about his role in the team.
I have not watched Roma this season, but from the numbers he seems the type of player who runs out of the defense to cut off the attack before it even begins (hey look, a lot of interceptions), a type of player who aggressively pressure strikers and midfielders (hey look, a lot of tackles and fouls), and a type of player who isn't the last man (hey look, few offsides won). Does that seem like a player who has a similar skillset to Pique and could replace him in our side? I don't think so. Or look at Cahill, the polar opposite. We all know Chelsea sits back and plays 27 billion DMs, so hey, what do you know, he doesn't tackle or intercept too much because hardly anything gets to him. And, also because of that, he hardly ever gets dribbled or concedes fouls, because again, they have Matic and Ramires and Willian and Mikel and Lampard to do it for him. Does that playstyle sound like something Barca will try in the near future? I doubt it.
But, now that we're talking about replacements. What it is that makes Pique the one we want for our side, and not someone with a similar skillset but who, well, isn't Pique? You know, I thought about doing a similar copy paste of numbers for passing statistics to show what role Pique filled that others couldn't, but figured that you could just as easily do it if you were interested. I'll summarize them though. Pique beats out everyone except for three players: Thiago Silva and the two Bayern CBs. Ramos is up there too, but whatever.
I think Thiago Silva is the easiest to dismiss, because let's look at the opposition. What good teams have PSG played? ... Monaco? Leverkusen? .. I guess Lille are decent? Yeah, exactly. We've played Atletico four (or three?) times, Real, City, Bilbao, Valencia, Sociedad quite a few times... the teams are just not comparable. Thiago Silva is still great, don't get me wrong, but there's no reason to believe he's better at that area of play than Pique. As for the Bayern center-backs... yeah. They kind of wreck. Even if we say that Bundesliga is a lot weaker and they've only played three good teams this season, (City twice, Arsenal with 10 men for most of the game and an injury-ravaged Dortmund), their numbers are still a lot higher. And indeed, they're probably outpassing Pique, whether naturally or because of Pep or because of Tata's "direct" style, but they are doing just that. But then we look back at their defensive statistics, and Pique pretty much beats them in everything but one or two categories. And isn't that what a defender is supposed to do? Defend?
TLDR - You're wrong, Pique is comparable if not better than some of the best CBs in the world, I have numbers and stuffz to back it up as opposed to blanket statements like "he often gets beat", "fairly average at best", and "difference between him and a good quality defender would be obvious". Cheers.
Sorry for the wall of text to anyone who just comes here to look at pictures of Milan.
Last edited:
FiReFTW
Member
lol stoped reading at "I'm gonna do a comparison post between Pique and some of these other amazing center-backs."
everyone knows you can't compare CB's with stats because of gazillion facters that come into play. Based on your little chart T.Silva ( considered the best CB in the world ) is not even better than Pique and quote a few other CB's including Ramos ( lol a joke of a defender ).
I feel sorry that you have wasted so much time and effort for nothing.
everyone knows you can't compare CB's with stats because of gazillion facters that come into play. Based on your little chart T.Silva ( considered the best CB in the world ) is not even better than Pique and quote a few other CB's including Ramos ( lol a joke of a defender ).
I feel sorry that you have wasted so much time and effort for nothing.
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Except his stats are better than Pique's, but yeah, whatever, a gazillion other factors come into play (which I totally didn't mention in all those paragraphs you didn't read)
Why? I suppose "everyone knows" he's not any good, is that it? Or is it that "if you actually watched other teams" I would know the reason?
FiReFTW
Member
Looks pretty similar to Pique to me, lagging alot in tackles. But fact of the matter remains that you can't compare defenders based on statistics.
And Ramos is a joke of a defender honestly I don't get how you can deny that, he is good in the air il give u that but other than that he has been embarassed a ton of times with his defensive blunders.
Most soccer fans would agree that Ramos and Pique are no good defenders, infact alot of them are just shocked at how ridicilous some of the errors from these two are.
And Semi instead of posting ridicilous stats that are meaningless maybe you should compare players by their attributes. What attributes does our dear Pique have? He is tall.. oh but wait he can't jump .. he is slow.. he has no agility.. his leadership is questionable at best.. his consistency non existant, his concentration is bad because he can make a facepalm blunder whenever.. Now of course these are just negative attributes and traits im describing now, but how can you stand there and tell me a guy with such negative attributes is one of the best defenders in the world, my friend that is ridicilous. Im not saying he is horrible even tho it might look like that because im more harsh than I probably should be to get my point across.. but certainly Pique is a questionable defender for 1st line up for a club like Barcelona. There are other better defenders out there, lots of them. Don't get fooled that he looks solid sometimes when our midfield is the main reason for it and the fact that he has almost no work or pressure to deal with from the opposition.
Think about things more clearly and reasonably and think about whats best for Barca. Priority is fixing the defence, then fixing the seemingly no motivation and lack of desire problem from some players.
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Worse in tackles, offsides won (more to do with his role in the squad than him being worse/better) and clearances. Better at everything else.
You have said that a few times, I still have no idea why.
Most soccer fans, in fact most people in general, have no idea what they're talking about.
Because you haven't proved any of them! You can't just say "he has no agility" and then be done with it, you have to a) prove that he no agility (which I guess you would do by gifs or videos) and then show how that it detrimental to his game and how that makes him a worse defender than others. You say stats are meaningless, which is simply not true, there is very little to a defender's game that is not expressed in stats besides leadership, communication, to a lesser extent fitting in with the other defenders (can somewhat be analyzed by looking at their role in the squad like I did with Benatia), and to a lesser extent composure (can be represented by pass accuracy and number of passes and etc.).
Again... who?
Last edited:
CatalinR10
Senior Member
I sometimes roll over on the floor and pretend i'm a dolphin
ebieymjunior
Senior Member
Have to agree with Semi here.
Stats don't tell the whole picture, but it can surely say a whole lot (otherwise what's the use of even keeper record?).
Most people, in fact most football players, have never played defense, let alone CB. It seems easy to the eye, but playing the game is something else.
That's why CB are one of the most sought out players in world football right now, because they neglected them the last few years (all will change after this season however).
It's not really questionable that Pique is one of the best defenders in the world (at least not for professional football players or people who's profession it is to actually know about it). It's true that he sometimes lacks concentration, but in Pique's defence, he should be rested more, and given more competition with Bartra, cause it'll help him, and he'll remain fresh and concentrated.
A good example was last year, when he was completely overplayed, even when the signs pointed out that he needed rest: lack of concentration, not playing well, not tackling well, not jumping high => all signs of a burn out for CBs.
When Pique was well rested this season and Bartra played a lot more, Pique was motivated not to lose his spot and worked hard. So did Mascherano. But once they were comfortable and knew they were going to play and consequently played a bit too much, they (or one of the two) started making blunders and the team conceded goals.
He should have been rested versus Sociedad, and either Puyol or even Mascherano should have played along Bartra. That's just one of the disappointment in last week's lineup. And seeing the lineup, you could just wish for the best, but oh well.
Stats don't tell the whole picture, but it can surely say a whole lot (otherwise what's the use of even keeper record?).
Most people, in fact most football players, have never played defense, let alone CB. It seems easy to the eye, but playing the game is something else.
That's why CB are one of the most sought out players in world football right now, because they neglected them the last few years (all will change after this season however).
It's not really questionable that Pique is one of the best defenders in the world (at least not for professional football players or people who's profession it is to actually know about it). It's true that he sometimes lacks concentration, but in Pique's defence, he should be rested more, and given more competition with Bartra, cause it'll help him, and he'll remain fresh and concentrated.
A good example was last year, when he was completely overplayed, even when the signs pointed out that he needed rest: lack of concentration, not playing well, not tackling well, not jumping high => all signs of a burn out for CBs.
When Pique was well rested this season and Bartra played a lot more, Pique was motivated not to lose his spot and worked hard. So did Mascherano. But once they were comfortable and knew they were going to play and consequently played a bit too much, they (or one of the two) started making blunders and the team conceded goals.
He should have been rested versus Sociedad, and either Puyol or even Mascherano should have played along Bartra. That's just one of the disappointment in last week's lineup. And seeing the lineup, you could just wish for the best, but oh well.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Pique's problem is he has zero athleticism, he is tall but has zero speed/strength, which shows in a lot of games.
The Observer
New member
Those posted stats are ridiculously meaningless. For instance it means feck all to make as many tackles as possible for a centerback. Positioning yourself in a way that you cut out passing lanes so you don't even have to get into a tackle is a far greater accomplishment than resorting to a tackle. Unfortunately positioning can't be quantified via Whoscored, yet it's the most important ability for a defender. It doesn't surprise me at all that Thiago Silva who has the best reading of the game has the lowest tackling rate whereas Ramos who charges into everything like a headless chicken has the highest.
I pitty the new habit in football forums to post Whoscored statistics and use it as an argument: "Pique has 0.456774 intercepted offside sliding tackles per game so he is better than Benatia who only has 0.38506."
Whoscored has a completely random algorithm anyway. I could make my own.
I pitty the new habit in football forums to post Whoscored statistics and use it as an argument: "Pique has 0.456774 intercepted offside sliding tackles per game so he is better than Benatia who only has 0.38506."
Whoscored has a completely random algorithm anyway. I could make my own.
FiReFTW
Member
lol @Semi
provide proof for every negative trait with vids are gifs? not sure if srs
u watch barca? u do? don't need to prove anything then, u know those things all are true.
also no need to even go into them, just watch a few games of barca and a few games of other teams and compare pique to another defender, watch how many blunders and mistakes both make, then come back and we can all have a nice chat about how Pique is nothing but an average defender.
in b4 pique is good but its the other defenders that let him down and leave him alone and make him do blunders
provide proof for every negative trait with vids are gifs? not sure if srs
u watch barca? u do? don't need to prove anything then, u know those things all are true.
also no need to even go into them, just watch a few games of barca and a few games of other teams and compare pique to another defender, watch how many blunders and mistakes both make, then come back and we can all have a nice chat about how Pique is nothing but an average defender.
in b4 pique is good but its the other defenders that let him down and leave him alone and make him do blunders
Home of Barca Fans
