Gerardo "Tata" Martino

F

Flavia

Guest
Toni Freixa posted this in his twitter: "Hay pocos motivos para celebrar el juego del equipo. Felicitémonos por el resultado y destaquemos a Pinto, nuevamente al nivel que se le exige" - There are few reasons to celebrate the team display, let's be happy for the result, and praise Pinto, who was again at the level required".

He then deleted it, but all press had already picked that up. Not a good sign :icon_neutral:
 

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
I really don't know what all of you expect from Tata.

You say he hasn't tried to make changes, but that is clearly incorrect. He has tried to make the team do different things. Long balls, more counters, faster attacks, tried to get the pressing back, tried to make the team defend more solidly. For the most part, he has succeeded in all of this.

You want someone to do what Guardiola did, but that is extremely unreasonable. Aside from the fact that Guardiola clearly is a different animal, what other manager out there has the standing, the respect and the overall surrounding situation to do what Guardiola did at Barca? Alex Ferguson at Man U, and maybe Mounrinho at Chelsea. That is it.

No other manager can come into a new club and get rid of their best players and make such radical changes with so little impunity.

The team, not the manager, just doesn't have the players to play at the level people demand from this team, just like Tito didn't have them, and he easily had more leeway than Tata has just by virtue of being cule and being Peps second. By the way, this demand for the team to play like the way they were playing during their golden era is also extremely unreasonable. Teams don't go though such periods every year, that's why they're called golden eras.

The team just doesn't have the same player and those who remained have clearly seen their better days.

There is no Abidal giving solidity and defensive muscle at left back.
There is no indomitable Puyol refusing to lose and unwilling to let others slip at center back.
There is no strong, skillful, goalscoring and direct forward the likes of Eto'o, Henry, Villa.

Dani Alves is clearly not the same player. He has declined.
Xavi is clearly not the same player. He has declined.
Pique is clearly not the same player. He has lost form.
Iniesta has been up and down.


Meanwhile, you've replaced the defensive cover in your fullback tandem with a dynamic offensive player in Alba, but who is clearly a defensive weakness.
You've replaced your strong, technical, direct goal scoring forwards with weak, creative, non scoring wingers. They're not even good at tacking on defenders aside from Neymar.

All this being so, yet people want to blame Tata for the team clearly not looking like it did in the past? It does not look like in the past because this an entirely different team. This is an entirely inferior team.

The team is still good, is still a top team in Europe, however it is no longer a dominant and trampling force. It needs turnover. It needs new players. It needs an infusion of talent, an infusion of youth and an infusion of hunger.
 
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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Great insight Sumlit, brilliant post.

Not much more to add, our squad is so non-versatile now. Wingers are more support than direct, midfield has no energy or steel, and defense is thin in personnel. We could change that with the incoming of Rafinha and Deulofeu + some much needed transfers. Until then this really is a bumpy transition period and the flaws we have are inevitable.

There's too much dead wood and not enough positive reinforcement. IMO a key difference is that Pep in 08/09 had a squad of players with many who didn't seem to be quite tailored to our system (Eto'o, Henry, Toure, etc.) but they had a rich variety in their qualities and were able to channel it into our style of play. Even if we played with a single style, it was meant to unify the various skills and talents of several different players into one powerhouse of a team. Now we have players that are simply bred into the system and way too dependent on it so that it isn't a huge group of unique players but a group of monotonous ones. It's too bland, too stale, truly a lack of life. Hopefully this changes.
 
F

Flavia

Guest
I agree with everything, Sumlit, great post. The team is clearly weaker now.

However, since january the players are looking really unmotivated. It seems something's up.
 

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
Great insight Sumlit, brilliant post.

Not much more to add, our squad is so non-versatile now. Wingers are more support than direct, midfield has no energy or steel, and defense is thin in personnel. We could change that with the incoming of Rafinha and Deulofeu + some much needed transfers. Until then this really is a bumpy transition period and the flaws we have are inevitable.

There's too much dead wood and not enough positive reinforcement. IMO a key difference is that Pep in 08/09 had a squad of players with many who didn't seem to be quite tailored to our system (Eto'o, Henry, Toure, etc.) but they had a rich variety in their qualities and were able to channel it into our style of play. Even if we played with a single style, it was meant to unify the various skills and talents of several different players into one powerhouse of a team. Now we have players that are simply bred into the system and way too dependent on it so that it isn't a huge group of unique players but a group of monotonous ones. It's too bland, too stale, truly a lack of life. Hopefully this changes.

Yeah I agree with everything you've said as well. And reading that, I can't help but think that Deulofeu and Rafinha leaving on loan and playing in different teams has to be actually considered as a plus for the team. They'll bring a different perspective that is clearly missing.

I'm also concerned because the way this team has been so poorly managed and allowed to decline so much without reinforcements, suggests that sooner or later it is going to need a complete overhaul type like in the Guardiola 08/09 season. They're going to need to jettison and replace a good amount of players, and probably do so in a relative short window if they intend to keep the high standards and competitiveness people have gotten used to.

There's going to have to be some tough decisions ahead, and the team will not be able to afford to get sentimental with players.
 

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
I agree with everything, Sumlit, great post. The team is clearly weaker now.

However, since january the players are looking really unmotivated. It seems something's up.

I do see the lack of motivation. IMO the team is not responding well emotionally to the changes being proposed to infuse the team with a little edge. I think they know they need the change, but they just don't like it, they just don't feel comfortable. In their minds, they just would rather go back to the comfortable and familiar style they already know and brought them such joy, but it just doesn't work anymore, for this group.

They also don't see the results when they experiment the changes, which again has to do with the talent and state of the team. That also kills drive and motivation to put work and effort into the change.
 

Samuel Eto'o

New member
I really don't know what all of you expect from Tata.

You say he hasn't tried to make changes, but that is clearly incorrect. He has tried to make the team do different things. Long balls, more counters, faster attacks, tried to get the pressing back, tried to make the team defend more solidly. For the most part, he has succeeded in all of this.

You want someone to do what Guardiola did, but that is extremely unreasonable. Aside from the fact that Guardiola clearly is a different animal, what other manager out there has the standing, the respect and the overall surrounding situation to do what Guardiola did at Barca? Alex Ferguson at Man U, and maybe Mounrinho at Chelsea. That is it.

No other manager can come into a new club and get rid of their best players and make such radical changes with so little impunity.

The team, not the manager, just doesn't have the players to play at the level people demand from this team, just like Tito didn't have them, and he easily had more leeway than Tata has just by virtue of being cule and being Peps second. By the way, this demand for the team to play like the way they were playing during their golden era is also extremely unreasonable. Teams don't go though such periods every year, that's why they're called golden eras.

The team just doesn't have the same player and those who remained have clearly seen their better days.

There is no Abidal giving solidity and defensive muscle at left back.
There is no indomitable Puyol refusing to lose and unwilling to let others slip at center back.
There is no strong, skillful, goalscoring and direct forward the likes of Eto'o, Henry, Villa.

Dani Alves is clearly not the same player. He has declined.
Xavi is clearly not the same player. He has declined.
Pique is clearly not the same player. He has lost form.
Iniesta has been up and down.


Meanwhile, you've replaced the defensive cover in your fullback tandem with a dynamic offensive player in Alba, but who is clearly a defensive weakness.
You've replaced your strong, technical, direct goal scoring forwards with weak, creative, non scoring wingers. They're not even good at tacking on defenders aside from Neymar.

All this being so, yet people want to blame Tata for the team clearly not looking like it did in the past? It does not look like in the past because this an entirely different team. This is an entirely inferior team.

The team is still good, is still a top team in Europe, however it is no longer a dominant and trampling force. It needs turnover. It needs new players. It needs an infusion of talent, an infusion of youth and an infusion of hunger.

You've said all that I think of Barca especially the parts about the defence and strikers. Could not have said it better even if I tried. I just pray and hope the sum of the parts are fixed before the decent players we still have decide to leave.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
if he wanted more balance in the defense, their is players in the squad for this
if he wanted more steel and aggression in midfield their are players in the squad for this, though not off the level of a abidal and yaya or whoever, he does have players in the squad where if he wanted different personnel to try something different he could, clearly the players are getting stale and too use to the system which is why we play better with neymar up front

but the total lack of synergy in the team is totally down to the manager, even tito could get this out of the player, not him yet.

we have song,masch,adriano,busquets, in the squad who he could use to at least give us a lite version of his vision he has chosen not to do so
 

serghei

Senior Member
Since we're improving the contract for all players - seems like the worse they play the higher they're paid - I guess the board doesn't see it like we do here. IMO, we should sell. Sell Iniesta or Cesc (one of them) for the right price. Sell Pique, Alves, Mascherano. Play Sergi Roberto more, Bartra and buy players like Gundogan, maybe even Rakitic too. Ander Herrera would sound nice. Go for Mandzukic, he's great both on and off the ball, exactly what we need. Bring some players. 5-6 hard working players and we start a new era with a new manager.
 

Antimadridista1

New member
Since we're improving the contract for all players - seems like the worse they play the higher they're paid - I guess the board doesn't see it like we do here. IMO, we should sell. Sell Iniesta or Cesc (one of them) for the right price. Sell Pique, Alves, Mascherano. Play Sergi Roberto more, Bartra and buy players like Gundogan, maybe even Rakitic too. Ander Herrera would sound nice. Go for Mandzukic, he's great both on and off the ball, exactly what we need. Bring some players. 5-6 hard working players and we start a new era with a new manager.

Pique won't be sold .
Alves, Mascherano, Xavi, Puyol, Valdes, Pinto, Tello, Oier, JDS ; They should all leave or retire.

The ideal squad to me :

GK : Ter Stegen, promote one of the B goalkeeper (Ortola or Masip)

-----

RB : Montoya, Adriano

LB : Alba, promote Grimaldo if he's good enough / Planas is shit

CB : Bartra , Pique, young CB ( Balanta), experienced CB ( Koscielny )

----

Defensive mid : Song + Busquets

Central mid : Gundogan, Sergi.R

Attacking midfielder : Iniesta, Cesc, Rafinha, Denis Suarez

----

LW : Neymar, Deulofeu

RW : Pedro, Alexis,

FW: Mandzukic, Messi, Dongou
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Pique won't be sold .
Alves, Mascherano, Xavi, Puyol, Valdes, Pinto, Tello, Oier, JDS ; They should all leave or retire.

The ideal squad to me :

GK : Ter Stegen, promote one of the B goalkeeper (Ortola or Masip)

-----

RB : Montoya, Adriano

LB : Alba, promote Grimaldo if he's good enough / Planas is shit

CB : Bartra , Pique, young CB ( Balanta), experienced CB ( Koscielny )

----

Defensive mid : Song + Busquets

Central mid : Gundogan, Sergi.R

Attacking midfielder : Iniesta, Cesc, Rafinha, Denis Suarez

----

LW : Neymar, Deulofeu

RW : Pedro, Alexis,

FW: Mandzukic, Messi, Dongou

I think we need something like this:

Formation.jpg


I'd sell Iniesta. Even Cesc. Alves, Mascherano must go too.

Łukasz Piszczek as RB anyone?
 
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