Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[big_man]

Martino: "Goal Alexis offside? Don't know, I just saw a penalty on Messi that wasn't given..."

I can't say that Tata merited praise for today. Winning and the manager doing well are two different things. Even Tito was able to win. Tata's lack of a system really made us suffer early on and we relied on Messi/Iniesta turning on for the entire team to get things going. I don't understand why he's been starting Xavi so much recently. He's declined to a large degree and our two best central midfielders are Cesc and Iniesta.

Hope Tata develops some team unifying tactics before the City game. We can't go in there unprepared like we've looked so often in 2014.

We relied on both of them turning up when we looked clueless against Arsenal at home for 45 mins, conceding from ZERO shots on target. I accept criticism, but can you at least criticise while being fair? Let Messi and Iniesta, OUR TWO BEST players get a run in the side before you judge him is all I'm saying.

 

[FCBarca]

No, I agree with Don, there's no way to give credit to Tata for anything other than playing Iniesta/Xavi from the start...Song was a disaster and the lack of edge or urgency from the team in those first 20-30 minutes was embarrassing from a team of this caliber...And that was before the weather conditions really worsened

Their tempo is terrible and that lack of sharp 1-2 passing until late in the match is hard to understand...It's like they're still in preseason

 

[Flavia]

Martino: "Goal Alexis offside? Don't know, I just saw a penalty on Messi that wasn't given..."

I can't say that Tata merited praise for today. Winning and the manager doing well are two different things. Even Tito was able to win. Tata's lack of a system really made us suffer early on and we relied on Messi/Iniesta turning on for the entire team to get things going. I don't understand why he's been starting Xavi so much recently. He's declined to a large degree and our two best central midfielders are Cesc and Iniesta.

Hope Tata develops some team unifying tactics before the City game. We can't go in there unprepared like we've looked so often in 2014.

Cesc's been overplayed lately too, he was due a rest. And Roberto isn't good enough to play a game like this. The problem is that the board sold thiago, and prayed roberto could fill his shoes, which he clearly can't, and now Xavi has no one to replace him.

 

[jamrock]

the same people who are constantly making excuses for tata are the ones who also constantly made excuses for tito, i guess that like the double consonants and vowels in their names'

 

[footyfan]

Today's game just showed that Barca are lethal when given space, and that Messi has rigged finishing. Is this really something we didn't already know?

Not a good game to evaluate Tata's tactics as they were never even put to use.

 

[DonAndres]

We relied on both of them turning up when we clued clueless against Arsenal at home conceding from ZERO shots on target. I accept criticism, but can you at least criticise while being fair? Let Messi and Iniesta, OUR TWO BEST players get a run in the side before you judge him is all I'm saying.

I'm not placing any final judgement, just observing as things go along. Things have been too erratic to actually have a definite judgement of Tata as a coach. So far what I see is that we have become more adaptable and have more variety than we did before, however we've done this at the expense of having a defined personality/unity as a team. Our flaw is that sometimes we don't bring the game to them and thus are left reacting to the situation, not creating it. It doesn't mean he is bad, just that we have stuff to work on. He's good at being what he is, a facilitator. I'd rather have him than Tito any day of the week.

 

[JamDav1982]

It is clear that Tata does have a 'plan'.

From watching the team this season you can see he wants the ball to go forward quicker if there is the opportunity to do it and it looks as if Messi is dropping deeper and trying to get the wide players involved more.

Whether or not it will all work out who knows but it is easy to see some of the things he is trying to change.

 

[Cule4life]

We dont have the players to play Tata's style. We need new players who will bring speed, height and strength to this team. He should be given authority to get in new players and ship off the slackers. But with this board it wont happen and he might get sacked and Xavi, Puyol, Song's contracts will be extended

 

[big_man]

I'm not placing any final judgement, just observing as things go along. Things have been too erratic to actually have a definite judgement of Tata as a coach. So far what I see is that we have become more adaptable and have more variety than we did before, however we've done this at the expense of having a defined personality/unity as a team. Our flaw is that sometimes we don't bring the game to them and thus are left reacting to the situation, not creating it. It doesn't mean he is bad, just that we have stuff to work on. He's good at being what he is, a facilitator. I'd rather have him than Tito any day of the week.

Horses for courses. The biggest problem this team had was its predictability, was it not? teams had started to learn how to adapt to our game. In fact, i'd argue the bigger, organized teams had us sussed from the get go, Chelsea, Inter and the likes.
Then with time, even the "just decent" (Milan, Sevilla) teams started to get results against us playing that way.
We NEEDED to adapt or we'll be found wanting (more frequently), trust me.

 

[jamrock]

Horses for courses. The biggest problem this team had was its predictability, was it not? teams had started to learn how to adapt to our game. In fact, i'd argue the bigger, organized teams had us sussed from the get go, Chelsea, Inter and the likes.
Then with time, even the "just decent" (Milan, Sevilla) teams started to get results against us playing that way.
We NEEDED to adapt or we'll be found wanting (more frequently), trust me.

make that argument

 

[ammarfcb]

We dont have the players to play Tata's style. We need new players who will bring speed, height and strength to this team. He should be given authority to get in new players and ship off the slackers.

there's 100's of clubs out their wanting to replicate the barca style and u want us to ditch it, spend big to support a new system a manager wants (and we don't even understand what it is yet). not any manager, some random div 2 argentine guy who's only been here 7 or so months?

seems legit aspiration yo

 

[JamDav1982]

there's 100's of clubs out their wanting to replicate the barca style and u want us to ditch it, spend big to support a new system a manager wants (and we don't even understand what it is yet). not any manager, some random div 2 argentine guy who's only been here 7 or so months?

seems legit aspiration yo

I don't think anyone is saying to ditch the basis of the style but new elements need to be introduced.

 

[DonAndres]

Horses for courses. The biggest problem this team had was its predictability, was it not? teams had started to learn how to adapt to out game. In fact, i'd argue the bigger, organized teams had us sussed from the get go, Chelsea, Inter and the likes.
Then with time, even the "just decent" (Milan, Sevilla) teams started to get results against us playing that way.
We NEEDED to adapt or we'll be found wanting (again), trust me.

I definitely agree that the last thing we need is the same predictability we had before. It's just that we should be more cohesive and unified in how we implement those tactics. If we need to control a game, do so with energy and a fluid team shape, not the slow and disorganized thing we've seen. If we want to play quicker, have an organized defense and keep our dynamic attackers in position to carry the ball forward or to make a deadly run rather than scattering long balls everywhere before we can actually find a quick route forward.

Tata has the ideas for change that we need. He just hasn't implemented it in a way that has the team click in all gears and where WE make the decision on how the game goes. The system implemented should be meticulous down to every last detail just like tiki taka was, only this being much more flexible and varied. Sometimes our team loses shape when in possession, meaning we rely on individual qualities rather than the connections between our players. Rid that flaw, get our players to work as a unit and move as a mass and as the game goes on we can change style to either own the ball or find their weak spots in counters. The team has to do it all together though, otherwise both methods are ineffective and we don't play as well as we can.

 

[FCBarca]

He's somehow turning us into a counter attacking team despite not being equipped to be effective enough to win against elite competition playing that way

 

[big_man]

make that argument

Sure,

2009

CL Semis with Hiddink's Chelsea

1st leg: Hiddink's Chelsea, Sat back and soaked up pressure. Barca being barca, we got a couple of chances at home, Bojan chance and Henry chance.
2ng leg: We were completely destroyed tactically in that game. We got done on the counter over and over and over again, Drogba missed about 3 one on one's, Anelka missed another golden chance, we had ZERO chances in that game, they completely shut Iniesta and Messi out. Iniesta scored from our only chance (which wasn't even a chance, just thanks to the don's brilliance). Then they came out and battered us physically, got at least 1 legitimate penalty claim that could have seen us out.

Basically, you'd have to be deluded to think we weren't incredibly luck in that tie, a 4-1 win wouldn't have flattered Chelsea

2010

CL Semi's with Mourinho's Inter

1st leg: Same story, defended in numbers and counter attacked brilliantly. We were hard done with Milito's goal, those are the kind of luck you need to win these games (see us in the previous year)

2nd leg: Mourinho shut us out with 10 men, we were hard done with Bojan's disallowed goal, but the fact remains, we created VERY little against 10 man Inter

2011

CL Quarters with Arsenal

1st leg: Beat us fair and square, great game from them
2nd leg: Same story, defended in numbers, got RVP sent off, an iffy decision, then they scored from zero shots on target, AND with the last kick of the game could have knocked us out with Bendtner cocking it up and Masch saving our blushes

CL semi's with Mourinho' Madrid

1st leg: Messi saved us against 10 man Madrid (A point I reiterated while replying to Don Andres when he noted Messi saved us today)
2nd leg: Close game, 1-1

Point being, those were very close games that we got the rob of the green or the other teams did, we never blitzed any of those teams. What did they all have in common? They were organized, class teams that defended in numbers and hit on the counter. Arsenal, the only exception, a traditionally attacking team, found out that they could never go toe to toe with us after the reality check they got the season before, so what did they do? They played a smart counter attacking game and (almost) got their reward for it.

Our most dominant games were when teams thought they could go toe to toe against us; Madrid 5-0, Arsenal 2-2 (The most unjust scoreline), Both United games e.t.c.....NOT when those played an organized defensive game

But let history tell it, we smashed every big team in the CL 10-0 during our CL wins by creating 100's of chances. I love Pep, incredible man and I'd have him here again in a heartbeat, but lets not rewrite history.