Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[beautifulgame]

I'm not surprised he isn't getting as much credit as he deserves. People are seriously underestimating the significance of this win. We just completely shut out a team that has scored 117 goals this season, and did so comfortably while in 3rd gear, all with our "pathetic defenders". I don't think, for example Pep would have won that game out there tonight with this team. Infact he was only able to achieve such a win once in his 4 years here. Not trying to downplay the great man's achievements, but lets be real, there is this inherent bias within our fans such that no matter what Tata does he'll never get anywhere near the credit Pep has even if he won us the treble while smashing everybody along the way.

Definitely.

Some will take this to mean Pep is not being valued righly but that is a knee jerk reaction. No one ha claimed Tata is better or anyone will erase Pep's history but IN THE SAME WAY as Tata's short successes (with Barca but a coach who has done A lot) do not implicate anything about Pep's barca successes, neither do Pep's legendary successes in Barca implicate anything about Tata's. So get over it.

 

[DinhoR10]

Although personally I feel Tata has better players then Pep had, All the positions with the exceptions of CM and CB are improved. Pep also had a lot more space, I assure you that if this match was played in 2010 City would have attacked us and we would have demolished them.

 

[big_man]

Although personally I feel Tata has better players then Pep had, All the positions with the exceptions of CM and CB are improved. Pep also had a lot more space, I assure you that if this match was played in 2010 City would have attacked us and we would have demolished them.

You think Tata has better players?

 

[Barcaman]

What do you know. We didn't concede against Atletico nor City.
I don't think there are many who are mesmerized with Tata's Barca but he clearly improved our defensive record. Something that was bothering so many fans all these years.

 

[DinhoR10]

You think Tata has better players?

Every frontline position is improved from 2010-2011 Neymar>Villa Messi(When on form)>Old Messi Pedro/Alexis(When on form)> Old Pedro.

Busquets has improved, he even scores goals now, iniesta is better if you ask me but he was always amazing so its hard to really judge him. Xavi has declined obviously and I dont know if Cesc is as good as 2008 xavi.

Alba>Abidal attacking wise and is as good if not better defending on the ground obviously he loses in the height department.

Pique when on form is just as good probably better because he doesnt have puyol to save his ass.

Masch is good in big games but obviously puyol was better because he could defend set pieces but Bartra given time will become just as good.

Alves is just as good when attacking but I guess you could argue he has declined since he cant track back as much anymore but montoya can so as with bartra I say in time he can reach the same heights.

 

[Me55i D105]

It's embarrassing to see what has been written on this thread. How some people are dissing and talking trash about Tata without seeing the wonders he has made with the team. The amount of spoiled band wagon fans is astounding that have no idea how it looked like before.

The facts are that he has kept us at the TOP of the liga with an injured Messi and an injured Neymar. We are no longer as dependent on Messi as before and are still winning a majority of games, and all of this in his first season and as a manager that hasn't been schooled by Barca like Pep was. To say the least he has done superb, sure there has been the ups and downs but we are in the final of the copa, we are on the top of the liga and hopefully through in CL as well. To not mention with an aging Xavi, lots of drama from the board and conspiracies from the media and lots of injuries. I sincerely believe he has brought back the desire to win which they seem to have lost since Peps last season, they are happy when score and are smiling and enjoying themselves, something that I at least haven't seen in a while.

Sure everything can fall apart but that is speculation and we shouldn't judge him before this season has ended. You can't expect trebles or doubles every season, this isn't dreamland but reality. Have faith and trust and cheer the team on instead of dissing them and taking every chance to bash something. For instance the game against Sociedad where we won 4-0 but everyone focused on the possession stats, that was insane.

Be supporters and support and have faith. After the season is over and we can summarize, then we can talk about his future. If you wan't to discuss but do it with a positive tone, not one liners that just states something stupid without basis and demanding a new manager.

 

[mazp]

What do you know. We didn't concede against Atletico nor City.
I don't think there are many who are mesmerized with Tata's Barca but he clearly improved our defensive record. Something that was bothering so many fans all these years.

And Madrid only scored in extra time as well. Kept a clean sheet for 90min.

 

[Kerrybai]

Every frontline position is improved from 2010-2011 Neymar>Villa Messi(When on form)>Old Messi Pedro/Alexis(When on form)> Old Pedro.

Busquets has improved, he even scores goals now, iniesta is better if you ask me but he was always amazing so its hard to really judge him. Xavi has declined obviously and I dont know if Cesc is as good as 2008 xavi.

Alba>Abidal attacking wise and is as good if not better defending on the ground obviously he loses in the height department.

Pique when on form is just as good probably better because he doesnt have puyol to save his ass.

Masch is good in big games but obviously puyol was better because he could defend set pieces but Bartra given time will become just as good.

Alves is just as good when attacking but I guess you could argue he has declined since he cant track back as much anymore but montoya can so as with bartra I say in time he can reach the same heights.

Fair points but the fulcrum which has supported this team throughout the years has and continues to decline ( Xavi ) I would take a younger Xavi over all those 'improved players'.

 

[Me55i D105]

Every frontline position is improved from 2010-2011 Neymar>Villa Messi(When on form)>Old Messi Pedro/Alexis(When on form)> Old Pedro.

Busquets has improved, he even scores goals now, iniesta is better if you ask me but he was always amazing so its hard to really judge him. Xavi has declined obviously and I dont know if Cesc is as good as 2008 xavi.

Alba>Abidal attacking wise and is as good if not better defending on the ground obviously he loses in the height department.

Pique when on form is just as good probably better because he doesnt have puyol to save his ass.

Masch is good in big games but obviously puyol was better because he could defend set pieces but Bartra given time will become just as good.

Alves is just as good when attacking but I guess you could argue he has declined since he cant track back as much anymore but montoya can so as with bartra I say in time he can reach the same heights.

We have the same players but they are older and much worse than under Pep, the defense is a disaster but Tata is somehow making it work.

 

[big_man]

Every frontline position is improved from 2010-2011 Neymar>Villa Messi(When on form)>Old Messi Pedro/Alexis(When on form)> Old Pedro.

Busquets has improved, he even scores goals now, iniesta is better if you ask me but he was always amazing so its hard to really judge him. Xavi has declined obviously and I dont know if Cesc is as good as 2008 xavi.

Alba>Abidal attacking wise and is as good if not better defending on the ground obviously he loses in the height department.

Pique when on form is just as good probably better because he doesnt have puyol to save his ass.

Masch is good in big games but obviously puyol was better because he could defend set pieces but Bartra given time will become just as good.

Alves is just as good when attacking but I guess you could argue he has declined since he cant track back as much anymore but montoya can so as with bartra I say in time he can reach the same heights.

Well, the narrative here is that we're far away from the team we once were. Anybody that has followed my posts will know that I never once thought we were invincible at any point in time even during Pep's years as we have always struggled against parked buses in the big games.

It's either we are not as good as we were and Tata is making the most out of these group of players, or Pep and Tito lost their way with this team and Tata has them back up and running in the big games, either way he certainly comes out of this looking good.

As for whether we have declined. I think the only clear decline is Xavi, Alves to a lesser extent and the loss of Abidal. But we have improved in attack on the other hand. I think we have declined slightly all things considered but nowhere near the way its been perpetuated in the media and even on here.

The underestimation is laughable at times but I think it helps our team tbh. I'll take "They'll get trashed, because they aren't the same team anymore" everytime if it means we bring our opponents back down to earth like tonight.

 

[Barcaman]

You can't expect trebles or doubles every season, this isn't dreamland but reality.

Not exactly "expect" but let's be fair. What is exactly "expected" of a team that is comprised of World Cup and 2X Euro winners plus Messi and Neymar on top?

 

[DinhoR10]

Fair points but the fulcrum which has supported this team throughout the years has and continues to decline ( Xavi ) I would take a younger Xavi over all those 'improved players'.

Cesc is showing massive improvement this season, he can dribble again and is not wasting possession as much, I seriously think he can replace Xavi in midfield once iniesta and Busi help him control the tempo. He isnt the same player but there is no other player in the world like xavi currently so we'll have to make due with another world class world cup winning cm.

And to Me55i the only players that are much worse are Puyol, Xavi and Alves and Alves isnt THAT bad since he can still run.

Edit: @big_man I agree I didnt actually say the team is better, but we have improved in some areas and I dont think we've shown our best yet this season we've yet to see a 100% Neymar-Messi-Iniesta-Cesc combo, I think that will show us where we actually stand in comparison to the Pep years.

 

[big_man]

It's embarrassing to see what has been written on this thread. How some people are dissing and talking trash about Tata without seeing the wonders he has made with the team. The amount of spoiled band wagon fans is astounding that have no idea how it looked like before.

The facts are that he has kept us at the TOP of the liga with an injured Messi and an injured Neymar. We are no longer as dependent on Messi as before and are still winning a majority of games, and all of this in his first season and as a manager that hasn't been schooled by Barca like Pep was. To say the least he has done superb, sure there has been the ups and downs but we are in the final of the copa, we are on the top of the liga and hopefully through in CL as well. To not mention with an aging Xavi, lots of drama from the board and conspiracies from the media and lots of injuries. I sincerely believe he has brought back the desire to win which they seem to have lost since Peps last season, they are happy when score and are smiling and enjoying themselves, something that I at least haven't seen in a while.

Sure everything can fall apart but that is speculation and we shouldn't judge him before this season has ended. You can't expect trebles or doubles every season, this isn't dreamland but reality. Have faith and trust and cheer the team on instead of dissing them and taking every chance to bash something. For instance the game against Sociedad where we won 4-0 but everyone focused on the possession stats, that was insane.

Be supporters and support and have faith. After the season is over and we can summarize, then we can talk about his future. If you wan't to discuss but do it with a positive tone, not one liners that just states something stupid without basis and demanding a new manager.

Fantastic post, God bless you!

 

[Kerrybai]

Cesc is showing massive improvement this season, he can dribble again and is not wasting possession as much, I seriously think he can replace Xavi in midfield once iniesta and Busi help him control the tempo. He isnt the same player but there is no other player in the world like xavi currently so we'll have to make due with another world class world cup winning cm.

And to Me55i the only players that are much worse are Puyol, Xavi and Alves and Alves isnt THAT bad since he can still run.

Edit: @big_man I agree I didnt actually say the team is better, but we have improved in some areas and I dont think we've shown our best yet this season we've yet to see a 100% Neymar-Messi-Iniesta-Cesc combo, I think that will show us where we actually stand in comparison to the Pep years.

http://santapelota.wordpress.com/20...lity-and-ball-retention-in-a-post-xavi-world/

This is a good article posted by a member here ( Irish Cules ) The article is written by his brother. It's a good read for everyone.

I don't know if Cesc was bought to replace Xavi, what I do know is he won't ever replace him. He's not that sort of player. He can't provide what Xavi does in controlling a game, just like Xavi can't provide what Fabregas gives us going forward. Xavi's decline is the biggest dilemma for this team and we simply can't play the exact way we did under Pep without replacing him, which of course is very difficult to do.

As a result Tata has to alter our tactics and find a way to be the world's best without Xavi. As you mentioned perhaps Busquets can become the metronome for the team and we could then have Fabregas play a little deeper and provide more defensively, like some sort of double pivot hybrid.

 

[DinhoR10]

http://santapelota.wordpress.com/20...lity-and-ball-retention-in-a-post-xavi-world/

This is a good article posted by a member here ( Irish Cules ) The article is written by his brother. It's a good read for everyone.

I don't know if Cesc was bought to replace Xavi, what I do know is he won't ever replace him. He's not that sort of player. He can't provide what Xavi does in controlling a game, just like Xavi can't provide what Fabregas gives us going forward. Xavi's decline is the biggest dilemma for this team we simply can't play the exact way we did under Pep without replacing him, which of course is very difficult to do.

As a result Tata has to alter our tactics and find a way to be the world's best with Xavi. As you mentioned perhaps Busquets can become the metronome for the team and we could then have Fabregas play a little deeper and provide more defensively, like some sort of double pivot hybrid.

He doesn't have the skill set to be the player xavi is in terms of being a sort of roaming pivot but he does have all the playmaking abilities of 2008 xavi as evidenced by his 16 (fucking 16) assists this season. And I believe if iniesta and Busquets do their thing the three of them together can make up for the loss of xavi especially with neymar providing plenty of creativity if iniesta has to stay back at times.

Edit: And I know they have yet to play against the best teams together but every time Iniesta-Busi-Cesc is played we have a great game and win comfortably.