Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[Behrox]

The team need new players, but you cannot just bypass the coach from blame. They were doing better in the 1st half of the season. Than everything collapsed, and it's getting worse by the minute.

Alright just tell us what you think Martino possibly could have done more today?

 

[Behrox]

Come on Alarcon, be reasonable. Players playing like shit is Martino's fault? Really man? The players are just not that good anymore and/or have very poor form. Look at the team up and down.

Pique - Never was World Class. For years he was shielded by a strong midfield, and some great partners in defense. Now that he is The Man in the backline, his deficiencies show. He is just a decent defender.
Mascherano - Never a CB. Good player, not a CB.
Bartra - Young, inexperienced, physically weak.
Puyol - Done
Alves - Decline
Adriano - sub type player
Alba - poor defender, lots of injuries this season, poor form.
Montoya - average player
Busquets - Bad form. Very very poor season so far.
Song - Not good enough
Xavi - Decline. Not fit to play consecutive games.
Iniesta - Bad form at the start. His form has improved a lot, but he's missed some games too.
Cesc - Good season, but he is a mercurial player. Great performances one day, bad ones the next.
Roberto - As vanillas as it gets.
Tello - Technically inept, not Barca quality.
Pedro - up and down.
Alexis - good season, but not a dependable scorer. He is much more a support player.
Neymar - up and down.
Messi - injured, recovering form.


What is Martino supposed to do? Any manager out there would struggle with this team. This is not Barca 2010-2011. Not even close.

I'm almost certain if Pep got this team now, he'd unload about half the team for new players.

Thank you someone who is actually thinking without being in deep depression and denial

 

[Sumlit]

Well, that's the difference between a great coach and a mediocre one, great coaches know which tactics to apply at which point and how to adapt to certain situations. Mediocre ones just "try".



No offense, but if you really think that a couple of players would make the difference in this squad, you're seriously deluded. Are you really trying to tell me that a team consisting of player like Messi, Neymar, Xavi, Fàbregas and Busquets shouldn't be able to at least get a point against a side that hasn't won to Barça in 12 years?

You tell me which magical tactics would have worked today. Go on, tell me which magical formation would have made those same players out there all of the sudden forget they are playing badly, and by tactics alone, beat Valladolid.

Did you not watch the game? Neymar - played like crap. Xavi- was nowhere to be seen. Fabregas - invisible. Busquets? Terrible.

No tactics can fix players playing badly. NONE.

 

[Galning]

You tell me which magical tactics would have worked today. Go on, tell me which magical formation would have made those same players out there all of the sudden forget they are playing badly, and by tactics alone, beat Valladolid.

Did you not watch the game? Neymar - played like crap. Xavi- was nowhere to be seen. Fabregas - invisible. Busquets? Terrible.

No tactics can fix players playing badly. NONE.

They could at least tried and play their basic game, but they didn't. Long balls, trying to play direct, crossing, no triangles, no tiki taka, no fast passing, no movement off the ball, nothing. It might not have worked but it sure as hell would've been a lot better than what I saw now.
They played nothing like Barça.

 

[Sumlit]

The team need new players, but you cannot just bypass the coach from blame. They were doing better in the 1st half of the season. Than everything collapsed, and it's getting worse by the minute.

I don't think Tata is exempt from blame. But the main problem is not him. This team no longer has the personnel to be the best team in the world. Martino has the team being a top 5-10 in the world, but the players are just no longer there to be a top 1.

Players form has dropped as the season moved on. With Xavi we knew it would happen, but now Cesc also seems to be on decline, Busquets has had a poor season, and is getting worse. The midfield right now is in deep trouble. We already knew the defense was not strong.

This was predictable. Martino should not get the majority of the blame from a situation that is largely out of his control. When he has tried rotations to save some fitness, the bench players have been attractions. He is between a rock and hard place.

 

[Behrox]

Well, that's the difference between a great coach and a mediocre one, great coaches know which tactics to apply at which point and how to adapt to certain situations. Mediocre ones just "try".

Alright let me ask you this do you consider Ancoletti a great coach or Pep or Mou tactically (even though I don't like him). If your answer is yes then you should know that all there teams had good reinforcements made and have a strong bench to do as they please. Now take a look at Martino and what he has to work with:
The great Affely, El Magnifico Cuenca, the next Xavi Roberto,better than Cristiano Tello,failing in the final third Montoya and the world's best paid bench player Song to put in if the first team is not performing even the first team has many deficiencies like an aging Xavi without anyone to help sub him, on/off form Cesc and Iniesta, under performing (and I can't believe I am saying this) Busquets, half season injured Messi, off form Neymar coming back from injury, Jordi Alba injured or suspended, Dani "hopeful cross" Alves. Now with this in consideration think about what you are asking from Martino. You want him to make us dominating like Bayern who have a ridiculous bench and same is the case with Madrid plus the added element of the Bus which we have to effin face every game the way teams play against other top clubs if we were to face something remotely as open we would be killing teams for fun without even trying. Next time try to compare the teams first before bashing the coach for everything

 

[Alarcón]

You tell me which magical tactics would have worked today. Go on, tell me which magical formation would have made those same players out there all of the sudden forget they are playing badly, and by tactics alone, beat Valladolid.

Why should I? I don't get paid for it. I just observe and I see that this team is broken. If I knew exactly how to fix it I would apply for the job today.

Did you not watch the game? Neymar - played like crap. Xavi- was nowhere to be seen. Fabregas - invisible. Busquets? Terrible.

I know. But the whole team have been playing badly for several games now. We have lost points in 4 of the last 6 Liga games and even when we didn't, we looked horrible. Please tell me whose fault it is if the team as a whole doesn't work, the players' or the coach's?

No tactics can fix players playing badly. NONE.

Motivating the players can, and the last time I checked, that was still the coach's job.

 

[Sumlit]

They could at least tried and play their basic game, but they didn't. Long balls, trying to play direct, crossing, no triangles, no tiki taka, no fast passing, no movement off the ball, nothing. It might not have worked but it sure as hell would've been a lot better than what I saw now.
They played nothing like Barça.

From the get go, Valladolid were pressing high and aggressively. Barca did not play like this because they wanted to or because it was their game plan, they played like this because Valladolid forced them to and the players did not have it in them to perform and make a difference. If Barca would have had time and space to pass and move, they would have done so.

This is all on the player. Perform better. Show more energy. Don't depend on the mythical manager motivation in order to show hunger and drive.

 

[Behrox]

Motivating the players can, and the last time I checked, that was still the coach's job.

How do you motivate players who have won everything there is to win under the Sun maybe threaten them to kidnap their wives/Gfs but I am pretty sure that would be illegal

 

[Galning]

This is all on the player. Perform better. Show more energy. Don't depend on the mythical manager motivation in order to show hunger and drive.

I seriously hope you don't think a manager being able to motivate a squad is a myth.

 

[Flavia]

I don't think Tata is exempt from blame. But the main problem is not him. This team no longer has the personnel to be the best team in the world. Martino has the team being a top 5-10 in the world, but the players are just no longer there to be a top 1.

Players form has dropped as the season moved on. With Xavi we knew it would happen, but now Cesc also seems to be on decline, Busquets has had a poor season, and is getting worse. The midfield right now is in deep trouble. We already knew the defense was not strong.

This was predictable. Martino should not get the majority of the blame from a situation that is largely out of his control. When he has tried rotations to save some fitness, the bench players have been attractions. He is between a rock and hard place.

I agree, I don't solely blame him. rosell era is what destroyed this team. But it's not the 1st time Barça plays like this this season. And this is due to bad tactics in a large part.

From the get go, Valladolid were pressing high and aggressively. Barca did not play like this because they wanted to or because it was their game plan, they played like this because Valladolid forced them to and the players did not have it in them to perform and make a difference. If Barca would have had time and space to pass and move, they would have done so.

This is all on the player. Perform better. Show more energy. Don't depend on the mythical manager motivation in order to show hunger and drive.

Coach motivation is not mythical, and the players psychological side seem really down. They don't look happy or motivated in the pitch anymore.

 

[Alarcón]

Come on Alarcon, be reasonable. Players playing like shit is Martino's fault? Really man? The players are just not that good anymore and/or have very poor form. Look at the team up and down.

Pique - Never was World Class. For years he was shielded by a strong midfield, and some great partners in defense. Now that he is The Man in the backline, his deficiencies show. He is just a decent defender.
Mascherano - Never a CB. Good player, not a CB.
Bartra - Young, inexperienced, physically weak.
Puyol - Done
Alves - Decline
Adriano - sub type player
Alba - poor defender, lots of injuries this season, poor form.
Montoya - average player
Busquets - Bad form. Very very poor season so far.
Song - Not good enough
Xavi - Decline. Not fit to play consecutive games.
Iniesta - Bad form at the start. His form has improved a lot, but he's missed some games too.
Cesc - Good season, but he is a mercurial player. Great performances one day, bad ones the next.
Roberto - As vanillas as it gets.
Tello - Technically inept, not Barca quality.
Pedro - up and down.
Alexis - good season, but not a dependable scorer. He is much more a support player.
Neymar - up and down.
Messi - injured, recovering form.


What is Martino supposed to do? Any manager out there would struggle with this team. This is not Barca 2010-2011. Not even close.

I'm almost certain if Pep got this team now, he'd unload about half the team for new players.

EDIT: I should clarify. When I say struggle with this team, I mean struggle to keep this team as the top team in the World. The team is still actually a good team, however not good enough to be above and beyond the rest. Any manager would struggle with this team if the goal were to be the best in the World. The players are just not there for that.

Sumlit, I generally agree with you and It's been clear for some time now that the team needs reinforcements but even our current crop of players should be able to do better than they're doing now. For weeks now (even months, some would argue), the players have not played up to their usual standard, they have looked unmotivated and have made little effort to turn matches around, they have moved very little off the ball and looked so uninspired that they resorted to playing long balls too often; all of which the coach is to blame for, at least in part...

 

[Sumlit]

Why should I? I don't get paid for it. I just observe and I see that this team is broken. If I knew exactly how to fix it I would apply for the job today.

There was nothing different today tactics wise. That is the point. This was not Socieded where Tata tried to give rest and put a second team out there with different tactics. This was the usual Barca. They did not play well because the players did not play well. There is no need to go looking for more stuff that is not there.

I know. But the whole team have been playing badly for several games now. We have lost points in 4 of the last 6 Liga games and even when we didn't, we looked horrible. Please tell me whose fault it is if the team as a whole doesn't work, the players' or the coach's?

If the players are playing like shit, it is the players fault. Coach can only do so much, and say so much. At some point, the players have to play. It's not like Martino has this great deep squad that affords him the opportunity to sit under performing players. On the bench, he's got Tello, Roberto and Song. That'll really motivate others...

Motivating the players can, and the last time I checked, that was still the coach's job.

Again, there is only so much a coach can say and do. At some point, it has to come from the player. At some point, the coach stops and the players play. If a professional football player getting payed millions to play for FC Barcelona, cannot auto motivate and must wait for a coach to light a fire under him, then he has some serious issues.

This is not about Martino and lack of motivation from him. This is about the players not playing well. End of story.

Fire the coach if you want, I certainly don't claim to know Martino is the answer. But another coach will have the very same issue. Unless this team gets new players and new talent, this same shit will continue to happen, even if Guardiola comes back tomorrow.

 

[mazp]

If he saw the team needed strengthening he should have asked for players in Jan, by all accounts he was happy with the squad. He should have pushed for a CB and Striker. Counting on Puyol when a couples months later he announces he his leaving/retirement is illogical.

 

[MagIX]

We need a new management, a new coach and new players.
It is time to change, now is time to make important decisions. Stop living in the past.
For these reasons we need a new management with BIG BALLS and we need a coach with BIG BALLS who has the courage to scramble the dressing room as did Guardiola.
We need new ideas. We need a new coach who can bring new ideas as did Raijkaard and Guardiola. We need a leader, a legend, like Raijkaard and Guardiola, not a mister nobody (Villanova or Martino).
We have finally to understand that a cycle is over, but we should no be afraid: this is in the natural oder of the things, each cycle ends...only our current management think that we are eternal.