Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[serghei]

Its about improvement though and this team is improving.

There is no divine right for the best team to win and a lot of luck is involved.

If the team play better in the big games this season than last and go toe to toe with the best teams then the season shouldnt be seen as a failure even if they fail to win the league or CL.

The difference is that last seasons team just didnt have it in big games and largely looked to be playing an outdated style for the third season in a row.

No, no. Lucho said to the media and the fans that it's all about winning thropies. And he's right. We had amazing games last season also. 2 great games against Madrid, 2 good games against City. We butchered small teams like we do now, even worse at times. 7-0 against Osasuna, 7-0 against Levante, 6-0 against Valladolid, 4-0 against Elche and so on. This year we were embarassing against Madrid, but we beat Atletico. We also were bad at Getafe, at Malaga, at Sociedad, with Celta. The only difference between this season and last season is that we hope to keep up the rythm until the end. Last season we lost something since march.

This time last year we were in the Copa semis, like now, almost through in the QF of CL after we won against City away, and sitting top of the table in La Liga.

 

[JamDav1982]

No, no. Lucho said to the media and the fans that it's all about winning thropies. And he's right. We had amazing games last season also. 2 great games against Madrid, 2 good games against City. We battered butchered small teams like we do now, even worse at times. 7-0 against Osasuna, 7-0 against Levante, 6-0 against Valladolid, 4-0 against Elche and so on. This year we were embarassing against Madrid, but we beat Atletico. We also were bad at Getafe, at Malaga, at Sociedad, with Celta. The only difference between this season and last season is that we hope to keep up the rythm until the end. Last season we lost something since march.

Of course the end game is all about winning trophies but the team can still be showing much improvement and play well and not win. There are a lot of factors involved.

Sometimes shit teams win trophies, sometimes the best ones dont. There is luck involved.

Was Rijkaard a failure in 2003/04?

 

[serghei]

Of course the end game is all about winning trophies but the team can still be showing much improvement and play well and not win. There are a lot of factors involved.

Sometimes shit teams win trophies, sometimes the best ones dont. There is luck involved.

Was Rijkaard a failure in 2003/04?

Well, Lucho's approach is more pragmatic than that. I find it normal to judge him the way he wants to be judged. In terms of achievements.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well, Lucho's approach is more pragmatic than that. I find it normal to judge him the way he wants to be judged. In terms of achievements.

Yip every manager will be judged in terms of achievements.

But a seasons is not a failure if you fail to win trophies and have shown an improvement. It can set the stall for future success and let people know they are on the right path.

Again... do you consider Rijkaard a failure in 2003/04?

 

[serghei]

Again... do you consider Rijkaard a failure in 2003/04?

I've answered to that. Rijkaard built something on our awful 2002-03. Lucho's situation is different. Last year's team came very close to winning the domestic double. Improving that is difficult. Many people here act like our last season was some sort of horrific experience. I wouldn't mind playing two finals in late may this year.

 

[JamDav1982]

I've answered to that. Rijkaard built something on our awful 2002-03. Lucho's situation is different. Last year's team came very close to winning the domestic double. Improving that is difficult. Many people here act like our last season was some sort of horrific experience. I wouldn't mind playing two finals in late may this year.

So a season can avoid being a failure without winning trophies if improvement is being shown. As happened under Rijkaard.

Pep said it best - all a manager can do is get his team to go out there and create more chances than the opposition. After that you are in the lap of the gods.

There is not one manager alive that has developed a sure fire way of winning all they can do is give them the best chance.

Barca won nothing last season and it was quite clear a lot of things needed to change. The style was out dated and a teams were over powering and out fighting them.

Personally I dont even think Tata was bad he just didnt have the personality to go past the Xavi/Iniesta slow passing or to get Messi fully motivated.

Messi almost all the games against Real and Atletico last season bar one was shockingly bad and lazy beyond belief. For whatever reason.

Getting Messi happy and motivated again is as good as anything.

 

[mssarm]

Let's say we win CDR, but RM never loses a game and we lose Ligue by 1 point(Classico draw). We also beat Bayern (decisively), but we lose someone else on UCL final. You would consider that as a failure?

 

[Flavia]

Let's say we win CDR, but RM never loses a game and we lose Ligue by 1 point(Classico draw). We also beat Bayern (decisively), but we lose someone else on UCL final. You would consider that as a failure?

Why beating any specific team would be deemed a success, if the ultimate goal isn't reached? The team improving is progress, but not winning any major title makes the season a failure.

 

[JamDav1982]

Why beating any specific team would be deemed a success, if the ultimate goal isn't reached? The team improving is progress, but not winning any major title makes the season a failure.

There doesnt have to be such a black and white final opinion as that though. Not all seasons that are not a success trophy wise are a failure.

Winning major titles is not totally within the hands of the management or the players. All they can do is put themselves in a position to win.

If Barca play well in the big games and dont win the league or CL then thats just the way it is. No one can totally control that.

 

[mssarm]

Why beating any specific team would be deemed a success, if the ultimate goal isn't reached? The team improving is progress, but not winning any major title makes the season a failure.

The reason I mentioned Bayern because all Barca fans feel pissed/scared about Bayern. I think there was an article that most Barca players want to play against Bayern on the next round after City. Regarding ultimate goal: we are not talking about exact science here. You can be all great and almighty but luck and coincidence can play major role here: that's why it is called Game and not science. I'm not against using silverware as a performance benchmark, but it is not that black and white.

 

[Flavia]

There doesnt have to be such a black and white final opinion as that though. Not all seasons that are not a success trophy wise are a failure.

Winning major titles is not totally within the hands of the management or the players. All they can do is put themselves in a position to win.

If Barca play well in the big games and dont win the league or CL then thats just the way it is. No one can totally control that.

For a club like Barça, yes it does, JamDav. Any season without the cdr, at the very least, is a failure. It's just the way it is.

It doesn't mean good things can't happen during the season, or that the team progressing isn't great news.

 

[mssarm]

There doesnt have to be such a black and white final opinion as that though. Not all seasons that are not a success trophy wise are a failure.

Winning major titles is not totally within the hands of the management or the players. All they can do is put themselves in a position to win.

If Barca play well in the big games and dont win the league or CL then thats just the way it is. No one can totally control that.

 

[Hamzah]

Why beating any specific team would be deemed a success, if the ultimate goal isn't reached? The team improving is progress, but not winning any major title makes the season a failure.

it depends on where your team is at in its cycle. for example if we reached the final of the cl this season and lost but won the liga it would still be a good season considering that our team isn't at the top of its cycle.

 

[JamDav1982]

For a club like Barça, yes it does, JamDav. Any season without the cdr, at the very least, is a failure. It's just the way it is.

It doesn't mean good things can't happen during the season, or that the team progressing isn't great news.

I dont agree with that and a lot of people argue differently on here all the time.

Peps last season wasnt a failure as he got knocked out by Chelsea in CL as that was just extreme bad luck and nothing more Pep could have done in that game. A lot of people say this all frequently on here.

Also a lot of people ripped Tito to bits for his team even though they did win the league by record numbers.... because they largely got out played in the biggest games.

It has never been as straightforward as trophies defining a season a success or a failure on here.

 

[Flavia]

I dont agree with that and a lot of people argue differently on here all the time.

Peps last season wasnt a failure as he got knocked out by Chelsea in CL as that was just extreme bad luck and nothing more Pep could have done in that game. A lot of people say this all frequently on here.

Also a lot of people ripped Tito to bits for his team even though they did win the league by record numbers.... because they largely got out played in the biggest games.

It has never been as straightforward as trophies defining a season a success or a failure on here.

You have a different opinion. That's mine. For some clubs, not getting relegated is what makes a season successful. For Barça, is winning titles and playing well. Just one or the other won't suffice.