Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[Cule4life]

No, it shows that you were prejudiced before the game even begun. Not playing Bartra or not subbing in Sergi Roberto earlier weren't defining factors in this game. Our problems lie elsewhere and are more fundamental. But as usual fans concentrate on symptoms and trivialities. This team shouldn't rely on Bartra, Sergi Roberto or Pedro to rescue the day to begin with. If we are at that kind of level it means we have reached mediocrity for good.

PSG in Camp Nou 12/13
Bayern in Camp Nou 12/13
Athletic Bilbao in San Mames 12/13
Athletic Bilbao in San Mames 13/14
Ajax in Amsterdam Arena 13/14
Brazil Confeds Cup final 2013

What do these games have in common?

No Messi + Xavi-Iniesta midfield = No goalscoring chances created, no defensive cover in midfield, not pressing as well as the opponent.

Under 3 different coaches. Quite obvious where the problems really lie. Yet no one wants to talk about it seeing the respective threads.

And who will solve this problems then?

 

[Gooch]

Two Tata failures displayed today:

1. Improving finishing, including long range shooting, was a top priority for him. It hasn't gotten better. Given all their weaknesses, most of all age, Barca simply cannot continue being toothless in the final third. Counter-attacking teams thrive against teams which get to the goal and cannot finish. And of course, this is not a matter of 'getting a striker', because one finisher is not enough. Everybody has to be able to finish better. And unlike things like speed and strength, it is possible to improve finishing quite easily by adjusting training.

2. Rotation. Unless Tata purposely wanted to expose his first team's weaknesses, matches such as Ajax and Bilbao, especially Ajax, cry out for starting the like of Sergi Roberto, Alex Song, and other second teamers. These are relatively unimportant matches and it's likely first teamers will take it easy. The best way to diffuse the opposition's intensity and add to yours is to play the young guys. And if you lose, well, you rested your first team. If you win, great.

All in all, both Ajax and Bilbao (who always play Barca this way), like Bayern, just ran and pushed and physically dominated Barca into the ground. Nothing new here. But small improvement from Barca would have overcome this.

 

[The Observer]

And who will solve this problems then?

Certainly not a new coach after his first 3 months after only 12 full training sessions. Subbing off Xavi when we needed a result 2 consecutive times shows he isn't completely blind to it though. Problem is: he doesn't have much of a choice. He didn't choose this squad. It's not his fault we only have 1 senior centerback, 0 strikers and 2 aging and physically and mentally fatigued midfielders. Messi's injury doesn't make it easier. Get Pep himself back and even he won't do any better unless he's allowed to completely rebuild.

 

[Samuel Eto'o]

I am stuck with the image of Tata on the sideline looking like a scared rabbit. I just hope he learns quickly and is able the solve the problems facing the team. The injuries are just showing that the team does not have quality throughout and I hope Tata and the board do the right things to add quality throughout the squad

 

[Flavia]

Certainly not a new coach after his first 3 months after only 12 full training sessions. Subbing off Xavi when we needed a result 2 consecutive times shows he isn't completely blind to it though. Problem is: he doesn't have much of a choice. He didn't choose this squad. It's not his fault we only have 1 senior centerback, 0 strikers and 2 aging and physically and mentally fatigued midfielders. Messi's injury doesn't make it easier. Get Pep himself back and even he won't do any better unless he's allowed to completely rebuild.

Tata doesn't have the easiest of jobs. But he's caving to pressure, be it from media or internally. He could've been playing Xavi less. Xavi's not being rested, and currently is a shadow of himself. He had no legs today. Right now, playing the big names isn't helping. Cesc as false 9 is terrible, Masch is terrible, and still Tata chooses to play them. There's the injuries problems, and the squad surely needs reinforcements, but Tata can also do some things a little differently.

 

[Luftstalag14]

We've gone from Overplaying (LAST season) to Underplaying (THIS season).

It was clear that we needed a Plan B or slight tweaking to our play. But it appears that TATA wants to tear up our way of playing and replace it with direct, long-ball, fast transition football.

Playing long-diagonals to 5ft 6" Alexis and 5ft 9" Neymar even when they have a defender close to them is pointless, High Risk, Low Reward football. Where's the intelligence in that?

What happened to the Craft and Guile, Pass & Move interchanges that bamboozled defences?

The "through-the-eye-of-a-needle" pass has been replaced with the "ball-over-the-top" from our own half. We have become ORDINARY.

Tiki-taka has it's supporters as well as it's critics, but when played at its best, it is UNDEFENDABLE. Why abandon it, when it has brought so much success?

I'm not saying we should never play a direct pass. But there is a time and a place. Not virtually everytime you win the ball back.

Most of us wanted an alternative to out play IF the current style was failing to work against an opponent. Instead, Tata has made a complete overhaul and we now more closely resemble a Sam Alardyce side than a Pep one.

We need to stick to our strengths. Otherwise we may as well sell Xavi and Iniesta, buy two cloggers and shove Peter Crouch upfront.

If Tata can't understand that, then he may as well see out the rest of the season and leave.

Any comments from Tata from the post-game conference? I like him, despite the losses and some poor decisions and judgement he has made, I want to see what he has left in his bag. I got the impression that he really detested the pressure from the media and the fans even when we were winning (albeit unconvincingly) earlier, now we are in the first real crisis of the Tata reign, I wonder if he might snap and call it quits himself? That would be disastrous.

Also, I read rumors saying there was some sort of friction between some of our players and Tata? It was alleged that some players challenged his authority and the intensity of his training sessions and he had to cave in? Has anyone else heard anything? I am hoping it is the same old Spanish BS tabloid journalism.

 

[FCBarca]

Tata is certainly culpable, regardless of little to no preseason or choosing the entire squad - effort, energy, lineups & tactics are down to the coach and there are no excuses for it

It's 2 losses in a row but even longer now where Barcelona has not looked like Barcelona, that's on Martino...If it were to evolve it into something greater or more difficult to defend, sure...But they've been predictable, more so than before...Apart from the Bayern debacle, even under Tito the team never fought this hard to even get it out of their own half - expending more energy to get out than work the final third...Under Tata, we're seeing just that, they struggle to get into an attacking gear except for the odd through ball to release one of the forwards

There's no way even Pep would have them this impotent, regardless of who is available in the squad...Guardiola sides had one constant, effort - they were never outdone in that regard

It's early of course but when it was needed for Tata to show his ability to get this squad to respond to difficult circumstances, they did not...Onus is on the players of course but so too for Martino...Makes all these Sport rumours the past couple of months seem far more credible doesn't it?...There are internal battles over how to play nevermind who to play

Tata seems likable but this isn't just any club and it appears that he's not up to the task...Gotta wonder if the board is already drafting a plan B...Even in Rijkaard's first season, Rosell was pushing for a change at an earlier stage in the season...The club has a lot to address as we're now at a crossroads, 20 months after Pep's resignation

 

[Barcilliant]

Tata needs some time. At the moment his main concern is results. Remember Rijkaard. He was a pretty successful Barca manager. In his first season at this point we were something like 16th in the table. We are joint first still. Tata needs new players-simple. The current lot are just lazy and unmotivated. Pep saw that and packed his bags asap. Even under Tito we were poor in many games. Tata is now the THIRD manager and the players are still underperforming. Even Mourinho wouldn't be able to coach this lot. No hunger, no desire.

 

[The Observer]

FCBarca. Disagree with everything.

Barca hasn't looked like Barca? How is Barca supposed to look? More like Barca isn't looking like Pep's Barca. That's because Pep isn't the coach anymore. Trivial.

Predictable? Not working the final third? Struggling to get into attacking gear? 42 goals in 15 games. Majority of it without Messi (only 8 goals scored by Messi). Only Madrid have more (2 more) and they have Ronaldo and Bale firing from all cylinders.

Pep wouldn't have them this impotent? Pep's last game in San Mames needed a 90th minute Messi equalizer to make it 2-2. At this point of his last season he had 3 points less than Tata. WITH a fit Messi. The 2-2 draw in San Sebastian after leading 2-0 initially with Valdes not realizing that the ball was almost rolling into the net was THE game which showcased complacency creeping into the squad. And that was 2 years ago. I can only imagine how it would have looked like without Messi for an extended period of time that season. Certainly not better.

Tata isn't up to the task because he lost his first La Liga game on a ground where we rarely win? Without Valdes, Alves, Alba and Messi? You like drama, don't you?

The club has a lot to adress. That's something I agree with. Playing midfielders in defense and attack is extremely poor for a club of Barca's caliber. You can't expect to have punch upfront without a designated goalscorer. Even Bayern look toothless without a #9 and their fans are debating this.

Can't evaluate a coach after 3 months, no preseason, 12 full training sessions... but he's shown more positives than negatives thus far. Which doesn't mean there aren't negatives (Mascherano over Bartra being the main problem).

 

[FCBarca]

FCBarca. Disagree with everything.

Barca hasn't looked like Barca? How is Barca supposed to look? More like Barca isn't looking like Pep's Barca. That's because Pep isn't the coach anymore. Trivial.

Your assessments are consistently trivial...Stick around for more than a few weeks and you'll learn what Barcelona is supposed to look like

Predictable? Not working the final third? Struggling to get into attacking gear? 42 goals in 15 games. Majority of it without Messi (only 8 goals scored by Messi). Only Madrid have more (2 more) and they have Ronaldo and Bale firing from all cylinders.

Yes, struggling to get into attacking gear and predictable...Ajax, Athletic, Osasuna...The biggest margins of victory to pad the stats, which never tells you the entire story?...Take a gander at where those teams sit in the table, all at the bottom - that is predictable

Pep wouldn't have them this impotent? Pep's last game in San Mames needed a 90th minute Messi equalizer to make it 2-2. At this point of his last season he had 3 points less than Tata. WITH a fit Messi. The 2-2 draw in San Sebastian after leading 2-0 initially with Valdes not realizing that the ball was almost rolling into the net was THE game which showcased complacency creeping into the squad. And that was 2 years ago. I can only imagine how it would have looked like without Messi for an extended period of time that season. Certainly not better.

Pep's last match against Athletic, 3-0 victory in the CDR Final...The match you are referring to that took a late equalizer from Leo?...Monsoon conditions but hey, stats don't reflect that - you have to actually watch the matches

And the refereeing decisions that went against Barcelona all season but for Mou et al?...It's well documented but, again, those don't show up in the stats

And no, Messi was never out for an extended period of time under Pep - something they were doing right perhaps?...Ironic that trainers have changed since then with no less than several stories & key players unhappy over that...Again, something that isn't recorded in the stats

Tata isn't up to the task because he lost his first La Liga game on a ground where we rarely win? Without Valdes, Alves, Alba and Messi? You like drama, don't you?

We also rarely lose in Basque country but more importantly, the team knows what to expect going there and never show up with less fight in them - even under Pep

You like arguing with little in the way of facts, just some isolated yet inconsequential statistics...Football is played on the pitch and there's a reason why it's been in the press for weeks now about how Barcelona do not look like Barcelona

It's about effort and the ability to play to Barcelona's style/philosophy, not struggling to get the ball out of our own half

The club has a lot to adress. That's something I agree with.

You don't need to go far in your rambling post to see how you've already contradicted yourself which illustrates my larger point, wum away

Playing midfielders in defense and attack is extremely poor for a club of Barca's caliber. You can't expect to have punch upfront without a designated goalscorer. Even Bayern look toothless without a #9 and their fans are debating this.

Mascherano is an easy scapegoat but that's not the primary problem, the midfield typically dominates not only possession but controlling the flow of the game from the middle of the pitch - there was none of that....and were left to spraying diagonal balls to tightly marked attackers instead of cutting through with their intricate 1-2 passing....You don't beat Bilbao spraying longballs unless you're more fit, Javier or no Javier...It's far too simplistic to lay it on Mascherano

Can't evaluate a coach after 3 months, no preseason, 12 full training sessions... but he's shown more positives than negatives thus far. Which doesn't mean there aren't negatives (Mascherano over Bartra being the main problem).

In 3 months last season, we saw exactly what we were getting with Tito (Someone who ignored Bartra and instead played Song & Mascherano) as we did with Pep...same applies to Tata - there isn't some miracle around the corner, this isn't a Disney film

And no it's not just Mascherano at CB but Cesc at false 9, failing to make adjustments sooner in the match and creating chances...We were supposed to see rotations but we've seen very little of that, except when injuries forced it...Can't be a coincidence that Iniesta has struggled this season

We saw the return of some nice high pressing at the beginning of the season but when you're already struggling in your own half to move forward, it's useless...Valverde, like De Boer used essentially the same script and the results were quite similar...The hallmark of a good coach is adjusting to tactics and elevating your team's play....That has not happened when most of us who follow the club regularly know it is typically something we've come to expect from them

Losing with the same mistakes is something that we have to worry about

Exactly

 

[The Observer]

Your assessments are consistently trivial...Stick around for more than a few weeks and you'll learn what Barcelona is supposed to look like

I didn't read your post any further from here on because you're being unnecessarily disrespectful. You're on my ignore list from now on. Have a good day.

 

[darthvader7888]

Let's see how he responds after last week.

 

[Galning]

Your assessments are consistently trivial...Stick around for more than a few weeks and you'll learn what Barcelona is supposed to look like




Yes, struggling to get into attacking gear and predictable...Ajax, Athletic, Osasuna...The biggest margins of victory to pad the stats, which never tells you the entire story?...Take a gander at where those teams sit in the table, all at the bottom - that is predictable




Pep's last match against Athletic, 3-0 victory in the CDR Final...The match you are referring to that took a late equalizer from Leo?...Monsoon conditions but hey, stats don't reflect that - you have to actually watch the matches

And the refereeing decisions that went against Barcelona all season but for Mou et al?...It's well documented but, again, those don't show up in the stats

And no, Messi was never out for an extended period of time under Pep - something they were doing right perhaps?...Ironic that trainers have changed since then with no less than several stories & key players unhappy over that...Again, something that isn't recorded in the stats




We also rarely lose in Basque country but more importantly, the team knows what to expect going there and never show up with less fight in them - even under Pep

You like arguing with little in the way of facts, just some isolated yet inconsequential statistics...Football is played on the pitch and there's a reason why it's been in the press for weeks now about how Barcelona do not look like Barcelona

It's about effort and the ability to play to Barcelona's style/philosophy, not struggling to get the ball out of our own half




You don't need to go far in your rambling post to see how you've already contradicted yourself which illustrates my larger point, wum away




Mascherano is an easy scapegoat but that's not the primary problem, the midfield typically dominates not only possession but controlling the flow of the game from the middle of the pitch - there was none of that....and were left to spraying diagonal balls to tightly marked attackers instead of cutting through with their intricate 1-2 passing....You don't beat Bilbao spraying longballs unless you're more fit, Javier or no Javier...It's far too simplistic to lay it on Mascherano




In 3 months last season, we saw exactly what we were getting with Tito (Someone who ignored Bartra and instead played Song & Mascherano) as we did with Pep...same applies to Tata - there isn't some miracle around the corner, this isn't a Disney film

And no it's not just Mascherano at CB but Cesc at false 9, failing to make adjustments sooner in the match and creating chances...We were supposed to see rotations but we've seen very little of that, except when injuries forced it...Can't be a coincidence that Iniesta has struggled this season

We saw the return of some nice high pressing at the beginning of the season but when you're already struggling in your own half to move forward, it's useless...Valverde, like De Boer used essentially the same script and the results were quite similar...The hallmark of a good coach is adjusting to tactics and elevating your team's play....That has not happened when most of us who follow the club regularly know it is typically something we've come to expect from them




Exactly

 

[FCBarca]

I didn't read your post any further from here on because you're being unnecessarily disrespectful. You're on my ignore list from now on. Have a good day.

Read several of your posts directed at me and see if you understand what disrespectful is...If you attempt to show condescension, I have no issue outing your flawed logic in a manner that reflects the tone you have repeatedly set out

But sure, take your ball & go home

 

[ZenI]

Your assessments are consistently trivial...Stick around for more than a few weeks and you'll learn what Barcelona is supposed to look like




Yes, struggling to get into attacking gear and predictable...Ajax, Athletic, Osasuna...The biggest margins of victory to pad the stats, which never tells you the entire story?...Take a gander at where those teams sit in the table, all at the bottom - that is predictable




Pep's last match against Athletic, 3-0 victory in the CDR Final...The match you are referring to that took a late equalizer from Leo?...Monsoon conditions but hey, stats don't reflect that - you have to actually watch the matches

And the refereeing decisions that went against Barcelona all season but for Mou et al?...It's well documented but, again, those don't show up in the stats

And no, Messi was never out for an extended period of time under Pep - something they were doing right perhaps?...Ironic that trainers have changed since then with no less than several stories & key players unhappy over that...Again, something that isn't recorded in the stats




We also rarely lose in Basque country but more importantly, the team knows what to expect going there and never show up with less fight in them - even under Pep

You like arguing with little in the way of facts, just some isolated yet inconsequential statistics...Football is played on the pitch and there's a reason why it's been in the press for weeks now about how Barcelona do not look like Barcelona

It's about effort and the ability to play to Barcelona's style/philosophy, not struggling to get the ball out of our own half




You don't need to go far in your rambling post to see how you've already contradicted yourself which illustrates my larger point, wum away




Mascherano is an easy scapegoat but that's not the primary problem, the midfield typically dominates not only possession but controlling the flow of the game from the middle of the pitch - there was none of that....and were left to spraying diagonal balls to tightly marked attackers instead of cutting through with their intricate 1-2 passing....You don't beat Bilbao spraying longballs unless you're more fit, Javier or no Javier...It's far too simplistic to lay it on Mascherano




In 3 months last season, we saw exactly what we were getting with Tito (Someone who ignored Bartra and instead played Song & Mascherano) as we did with Pep...same applies to Tata - there isn't some miracle around the corner, this isn't a Disney film

And no it's not just Mascherano at CB but Cesc at false 9, failing to make adjustments sooner in the match and creating chances...We were supposed to see rotations but we've seen very little of that, except when injuries forced it...Can't be a coincidence that Iniesta has struggled this season

We saw the return of some nice high pressing at the beginning of the season but when you're already struggling in your own half to move forward, it's useless...Valverde, like De Boer used essentially the same script and the results were quite similar...The hallmark of a good coach is adjusting to tactics and elevating your team's play....That has not happened when most of us who follow the club regularly know it is typically something we've come to expect from them




Exactly

Good post, agree 100%