Gerardo "Tata" Martino

[Aryagorn]

Why I keep hearing that our players are too old? Apart from Xavi and Puyol(and let's face it, it's not like Puyol has been very helpful last year either), I don't think that we can complain about the age of our players.

Puyi has been the wall in the big matches, may be not last year but definitely before that, and Xavi has definitely been the greatest influence behind our success, moreso than he is credited for(IMO more than Iniesta). And oh yeah, we lost Abidal.

Iniesta is strugling and Messi is damn injured. So my point definitely stands.

 

[Maria]

Puyi has been the wall in the big matches, may be not last year but definitely before that, and Xavi has definitely been the greatest influence behind our success, moreso than he is credited for(IMO more than Iniesta). And oh yeah, we lost Abidal.

The last time we won the CL Abidal and Pique were our best CBs and last season(when we won the league), like I said, Puyol was of no help to us. And I already named Xavi..and we didn't lose Abidal. We chose to let him go.

Iniesta is strugling and Messi is damn injured. So my point definitely stands.

But are they old? Because that's what I was asking.

 

[Aryagorn]

The last time we won the CL Abidal and Pique were our best CBs and last season(when we won the league), like I said, Puyol was of no help to us. And I already named Xavi..and we didn't lose Abidal. We chose to let him go.

well, the club chose or otherwise the team did lose out on Abidal's service.

But are they old? Because that's what I was asking.

That's why I mentioned both the points... some of the key members are either too damn old or too damn injured. So yeah, the team is not as good as it was 2 years ago. I think we should give tata some time before judge on him, that's my whole point

 

[Maria]

That's why I mentioned both the points... some of the key members are either too damn old or too damn injured.

I only asked this:

Why do I keep hearing that our players are too old? Apart from Xavi and Puyol(and let's face it, it's not like Puyol has been very helpful last year either), I don't think that we can complain about the age of our players.

Because I keep hearing this since Pep left and I don't think it's true. And you answered me by giving Puyol, Xavi, Abidal, Iniesta and Messi as examples.

So yeah, the team is not as good as it was 2 years ago.

In Pep's last season: Pique, Pedro and Alexis struggled with injuries, Abidal couldn't play after February, Villa broke his leg in December but even before that his form was terrible, Dani was going through a divorce and after he renew his contract he decided to take a break and spend his nights in the club and Messi couldn't score away from home to save his life in the first half of the season..not to mention that Cesc did his usual disappearing act after January, Xavi struggled because of his knees in the 2nd half of the season and Iniesta didn't had something that we might call a good season.
This season Pique, Pedro and Alexis are in a better form, we have Bartra instead of Abidal, Neymar instead of Villa, Dani has been pretty good until his injury and I liked Cesc when he didn't played as a false 9. So we are left with a Xavi who is 2 years older, Messi who struggled with injuries and Iniesta who can't find his form(though atleast he was there for us in the most important game of the season until now).

So IMO, in no way the players are too old or the team is worse than it was 2 years ago..especially when Messi will return.

I think we should give Tata some time before judge on him, that's my whole point

I don't think I've said otherwise though..and if last year I wasn't fully convinced by Tito from the beginning, I don't have too much to reproach Tata with.

 

[Aryagorn]

In Pep's last season: Pique, Pedro and Alexis struggled with injuries, Abidal couldn't play after February, Villa broke his leg in December but even before that his form was terrible, Dani was going through a divorce and after he renew his contract he decided to take a break and spend his nights in the club and Messi couldn't score away from home to save his life in the first half of the season..not to mention that Cesc did his usual disappearing act after January, Xavi struggled because of his knees in the 2nd half of the season and Iniesta didn't had something that we might call a good season.
This season Pique, Pedro and Alexis are in a better form, we have Bartra instead of Abidal, Neymar instead of Villa, Dani has been pretty good until his injury and I liked Cesc when he didn't played as a false 9. So we are left with a Xavi who is 2 years older, Messi who struggled with injuries and Iniesta who can't find his form(though atleast he was there for us in the most important game of the season until now).

So IMO, in no way the players are too old or the team is worse than it was 2 years ago..especially when Messi will return.

Since when is Pep's last year a benchmark!?

I don't think I've said otherwise though..and if last year I wasn't fully convinced by Tito from the beginning, I don't have too much to reproach Tata with.

My post was of course not aimed at you my lady... I was just mentioning that we should may be consider my points before judging Tata, which was the main reason I mentioned them in the first place

 

[Maria]

Since when is Pep's last year a benchmark!?

You said that the team is not as good as it was 2 years ago.
If you have said 3 years ago I wouldn't have even bothered to make the comparison.

 

[suckabov]

Age as such is not a problem if we bother to find clear heirs/replacements for the older players before they are too old and retire. We can play Xavi and Puyol as long as they're fit, but to stay competitive we need to find and make out definite heirs early on. We have missed to do that for Puyol, which made us suffer a bit last season - now with the rise of Bartra that shouldn't be too much of a problem anymore, if he gets played as our no 1 defender and not as a subsitute for Mascherano. Still, relying on Puyol as our "new signing" instead of buying fresh defenders or giving the youngsters more chances much earlier was a bit of a gamble. As for Xavi, we have candidates such as Roberto and Samper, but neither of them are currently getting enough playing time for them to grow into the position and for us to be certain that they will do the job. Xavi is still younger than Puyol and should have a few years, but we must find a good replacement now if we want to avoid having to rely on him even when his fitness and "quality" levels go down and, thus, a little slump. He's still hugely important for us and performs well in most games, but waiting till he doesn't anymore will be dangerous as it might be too late then.

That, however, is not solely down to Tata but more to our management in the past few years.

(And no, I don't mean there are one-to-one replacements for Xavi and Puyol or that Roberto is the next Xavi etc etc)

 

[beautifulgame]

Either way, it means Tata was tactically inept on top of failing to get the team's intensity up for a big match

the intensity is an issue of players that have won everything. even pep was aware that a restructuring of the roster needed to happen in the last year of his tenure, much like the one he did in his first summer.

someone said the a couple weeks ago, it is difficult to put in the work required to play in the way we played vs Celtic over an entire year and frankly proven impossible to do it with the same set of players over consecutive years. Even Bielsa's bilbao couldn't keep it up the entire year without hitting mental and physical exhaustion and the second year they were depleted. Now, Tata is aware of how hard this team will work and perhaps he knows he can only get them to play and defend with intensity to a certain degree.

to be frank, bilbao played a brilliant game. that game is one a team like Bayern could have had troubles in as well. what is apparent is this team doesn't have the same drive that they did in their best years but that doesn't mean they still can't win and prove themselves better than the rest. however, you won't see these same players pressing like that all year, many of them (xavi and maybe iniesta included) don't have the hunger and perhaps conviction to do that for an entire season, especially with their last world cup around the corner. this is one reason a player like Sergi could be of a great help this season, like Kieta was invaluable.

i'm hoping they can simply find three months of the last part of the season to kick into that gear. perhaps that is what Tata is hoping to do as well.

 

[FCBarca]

It's true that complacency is often the toughest thing for winning sides to overcome but it's helped if you have addicts to winning like this team has...It's a unique group of players and I think it'd be a mistake to compare them to Bielsa's Bilbao or any other side...Plus, certain types of managerial styles can wear a team out but that's different from the quality or desire to win that is apparent from this team

A big reason why I thought whomever would take over for Pep much less Tito would have to not only massage these egos but keep them sharp both in terms of tactics and motivation/energy...They have to come into a match, from the first whistle, knowing that if they execute the gameplan and raise their energy level & play, they will beat anyone...Another reason why I think rotation can be an important tool to that end, if you are slacking off, you sit

We'll see how Martino progresses but that recent run of matches left me less confident Tata will be the coach to lead this team back to greatness...The Celtic match, for me, is more of an aberration for me than finally hitting their stride...We all know the team is capable of a performance like that, if not better...but it's raising that play to meet & exceed the opponents level that has been missing...Villarreal is one test but there will be many others much bigger ahead...Fortunately, we should be getting Leo back too which always makes this a nearly impossible team to defeat - even on a bad day

 

[Maria]

It's a unique group of players and I think it'd be a mistake to compare them to Bielsa's Bilbao or any other side...

Plus in Bielsa's 2nd year he was already fighting with everyone and his press conferences were surreal..

 

[beautifulgame]

the point is not to compare the two teams.

that was an example. the point is no group of the same players can keep that level for such an extended period of time. the team needs to revamp to play that way to to some degree.

 

[te amo barca]

Why on Earth does he keep playing Cesc as false9?

 

[Flavia]

Why on Earth does he keep playing Cesc as false9?

If I'd meet him today, that's what I'd ask him.

 

[Cule4life]

If I'd meet him today, that's what I'd ask him.

I don't know Spanish but I would find creative ways to make him understand that if I meet him

 

[Flavia]

‏@barcastuff 11 min
Martino: "After Super Cup against Atletico, this is the game I'm most satisfied with because we continued the level of Cartagena and Celtic"

Martino: "Song-Busquets? Plan was for Busi to play 3rd centre back, Alex def mid, attacking full backs, but Villarreal changed formation."

Martino: "I thank the fans for their support today, they were great the whole game. This was an important game."

Martino: "Losing or winning, we always miss Messi. He's the best player in the world. With him, we would have played even better today."

Martino: "The team is getting better, it's a shame the winter break is coming. I'd almost wish they postpone the holidays..."

Martino: "Alex's match was ok. It was my fault that he had to play an uncomfortable game."