Horatio
You're welcome
PSG will not make it past quarter-finals.
Gianluigi Buffon
- Thread starter Thierry
- Start date
PSG will not make it past quarter-finals.
Jair Ventura
New member
I'll love them anyway.
Horatio
You're welcome
quarter-finals
KingLeo10
Senior Member
you can make a case for ligue 1 over bundesliga these days. La liga or EPL is still a clear level above. Serie A was weak from 2011-2015 but has picked up recently. it'll be interesting seeing how france capitalize on becoming a great football nation (2 WC or more) with regards to increase in ligue 1 prestige.
Jair Ventura
New member
Use to it. Will still love them.
Horatio
You're welcome
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
It's a moot point that France has much more talent production atm. France just won a WC on the back of what is a golden generation for them in terms of talent. Yet how many of those players actually play in Ligue 1? 2 of the starters, only one of whom is a key player? Compare that to Spain's golden gen when they won the WC which was pretty much exclusively La Liga save for guys like Torres/Cesc. Or Germany which was easily majority Bundesliga.
French talents don't actually become stars in Ligue 1 or elevate that league. Brazil arguably has produced even more talent than France's golden gen in recent years, does that mean the Brazilian league is the best in the world? If you rank countries based on talent production and league strength the two do not correlate, period.
I also don't see how you can so easily dismiss the UEFA coefficient, an impartial numerical analysis of how teams from each league perform in standardized competition. That is the ONLY place where the leagues are tangibly tested against each other. The 5 year history matters, it's not ancient. Funnily enough, Ligue 1's UEFA coefficient was actually higher 5 years ago than it is now
so that kills your argument about "but the metric is lagging because Ligue 1 has grown while Bundesliga hasn't". If Ligue 1 is growing, why are they fairing more poorly against European competition? Maybe because the other leagues are growing faster. In fact France's coefficient is the only one of the top 5 that has declined at any point in the past 5 years other than England, while Italy rose significantly and Germany remained relatively the same. It shows how Ligue 1 has been significantly poorer than the other 4 leagues recently in Europe. Spain is at like 101, the other 3 are in the 70's, and then there's Ligue 1 sitting at 56. That is noteworthy and relevant, you can't just toss it out because it completely undermines your argument. I'm sorry but stadiums, pitches, academies and all that shit is so peripheral when it comes to judging the actual STRENGTH of the league in relation to another. Essentially how the aggregate quality of all the teams stacks up. I'm talking about strength, that the quality of competition in Ligue 1 is poor. Not just about parity, which is the distribution of quality across the league (which is what you and Vilarrubi are arguing about). La Liga has been the strongest league in the world since 2010, whereas EPL has had the most parity of any of the top 5. That's the difference.
A player like Mahrez going from some nothing division in France to being a beast in England says literally fuck all about Ligue 1's strength in comparison to EPL. A guy like Di Maria who's career went to die at United in the EPL and then suddenly comes to life in PSG does say something about Ligue 1 in comparison to the EPL. When several great players who declined and waned out in the tougher leagues or the ones who struggled to ever make it in those leagues (after an appropriate amount of years) then go on to dominate Ligue 1, it says something about that league.
If I replaced Ligue 1 with the MLS you wouldn't even try to argue my point. Villa, Henry, Zlatan are the ancient vets who could no longer bring it in Europe but still went on to kill it in the MLS. Giovani Dos Santos is like Balotelli who never even truly did make it despite years of struggles in Europe and then also went on to dominate MLS. Why? Because it's a lower level of competition. Ligue 1 is obviously a different tier entirely but the principle is the exact same.
Basically every empirical fact one can conjure up in this debate supports the idea that Ligue 1 is clearly the weakest league of the top 5.
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Jair Ventura
New member
Before Ronaldinho moved from PSG to Barcelona, and before Messi's ascension into the worlds best player, how dominate was La Liga in Europe in that era? What about Barcelona? They were good, yes, but far and away the best as they are now? That only happened recently. Things change fast in football.
Mbappé, Thauvin, Fekir? I'd say that's a solid start. The change has to start somewhere.
Ours was the best in the world at one point, but we are poor. With France's wealth the Brasileiro would be a much stronger competition. We'd be able to retain players longer rather than having them poached by European giants as soon as they show talent. It's still a good league, just isn't what it was because our top players all play in Europe.
For me, Dortmund's or Liverpool's strength four or five years ago has no bearing on their strength today. The same applies for PSG, Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, Lille, etc. These clubs are growing their brands, strengthening their academies, signing better players and managers. The impact of that isn't going to be felt five years ago, but years into the future. Even now it is easy to recognize that the Ligue 1 of today is much different than the Ligue 1 Thiago Silva and Zlatan walked into.
Funnily enough, Ligue 1's UEFA coefficient was actually higher 5 years ago than it is now
I don't know what France's coefficient was 5 years ago, but I'm pretty sure they had either fallen behind or were under threat of falling behind Russia and Portugal. It's hard to see how they're worse off today if that were the case. Also, isn't their worst year of the last 5 seasons dropping off after 18/19?
Ligue 1 has had three different clubs reach the semi-finals of European competitions over the last two seasons. One of those clubs reached a final. I would not describe that as poor.
I disagree, as those are the things that determine long term sustainability. For example, Napoli has been stronger than Lyon over the last decade, but Lyon projects better into the future because they own a new 60k seat stadium, have one of the best academies in the world that regularly feeds quality into their first team, and the growth of their league is such that it's earned the 3rd most lucrative domestic broadcasting deal of Europe's top five leagues. Meanwhile, the Stadio San Paolo is old and falling apart, while the club itself struggles to sign or develop top players due to it's weak financial structure and negligible academy.
I know who you'd rather be in 2015, but what about 2020?
Explain why it doesn't? We aren't talking about top talents from Ligue 1 moving from from France to England at 18 and becoming the best players in the EPL at 25. We're talking about players that spent multiple seasons in the second tier, or at bottom clubs, who then moved from France to England in unheralded transfers before dominating the English league upon arrival.
Kanté played 38 matches with Boulogne and 75 with Caen. If Ligue 1 were as far off the rest of Europe's top five leagues as you say, how is it possible that he moved from France to England and in his first season he leads Leicester City of all clubs to the most unlikely championship in EPL history? Now he's arguably the best player in the competition. How is that even possible? You'd think there'd be a learning curve or an adjustment period, but no. He went from being an obscure Ligue 1 player to the best player in England in one year.
Understand that I'm not arguing Ligue 1 is as strong as the EPL. I just don't believe it's as bad some of you like to exaggerate.
Di María was 25 years old and coming off a UCL victory and motm performance with Real Madrid when he moved to United. He was also awesome at the Copa America immediately after his stint in England. Why are you acting as if he was some past it player after a single season in the EPL?
There's too many nonsense arguments being made to downplay Ligue 1. I don't get it.
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Devils
Senior Member
https://www.football-italia.net/127245/buffon-‘less-stress-france’
Buffon enjoying his retirement in Ligue 1. LMAO.
Buffon enjoying his retirement in Ligue 1. LMAO.
Jair Ventura
New member
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
FC433
New member
I think the quality of any league can be measured by evaluating:
The strength of the league: how well does the league do in continental competitions
Its competitiveness: how easy to predict the winner of the domestic competitions
Its reputation: Does doing well in the league provide a better chance of winning individual awards? The cost of the league's broadcasting rights? Golden shoe points system? Available seats for continental competitions? etc
History:
My overall ranking (the past decade only):
La Liga
Premier League
Seria A
Bundesliga
Ligue 1
The decade before:
Seria A
Premier League
La Liga
Bundesliga
Ligue 1
The strength of the league: how well does the league do in continental competitions
Its competitiveness: how easy to predict the winner of the domestic competitions
Its reputation: Does doing well in the league provide a better chance of winning individual awards? The cost of the league's broadcasting rights? Golden shoe points system? Available seats for continental competitions? etc
History:
My overall ranking (the past decade only):
La Liga
Premier League
Seria A
Bundesliga
Ligue 1
The decade before:
Seria A
Premier League
La Liga
Bundesliga
Ligue 1
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Still can't understand why he chose PSG tbh
Very weird decision to make.
Today result doesn't help either
Very weird decision to make.
Today result doesn't help either
Messigician
Senior Member
Obviously semi retired in farmers league. He would never have performed like thst if he was still at Juve
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