Hans-Dieter Flick

[RedxMAK]

You are a great addition to the forum, but I'm struggling with the caps on every word.

Thank You, I Appreciate It. I Apologise For Capping Every Letter As It Is A Habit I Liked Doing For Years Now I’ll Try To Stop

 

[RedxMAK]

Xavi won the league with mostly these same players and Dumbele who is nowhere close to Yamal so can argue Flick has a better team and expectations should be he also wins La Liga.

Also, when Xavi said team needs improvement his haters disagreed and praised Hansi to believe in this team but now after few months he also realised we need to improve in certain positions.

Good double standards.

Bro the Xavi hate is insane, he fixed many problems with the club and he was called a bum for a few mistakes he did when he was going through the right path. Tbh I agreed with his comments but he still should have said something else because it’s like he gave up on the squad innit

 

[Horatio]

Thank You, I Appreciate It. I Apologise For Capping Every Letter As It Is A Habit I Liked Doing For Years Now I’ll Try To Stop

Can’t teach an old dawg new tricks

 

[RedxMAK]

We won the league in 98 conceeding 56 goals in 38 games.

Those who say Xavi is close to Van Gaal in management are well off the mark. Flick is closer to Van Gaal v1, Bobby Robson and Cryuff than any of our managers in the 20+ years since then.

If you don't admire Flick and say you favour Barca DNA, then you are lying to yourselves as Barca DNA pre 2001 and post 2004 (Rijkaard then Pep) are two entirely different things.

Post isn't directed at you directly btw, just pointing out that Barca DNA and Pep DNA are two different things that have conceptually been merged since the sextuple.

I agree, I said in this forum earlier, that I feel like Barcelona under Flick looks like Barcelona under Cruyff more than Pep’s Barcelona side did. It’s about the suicidal football that both played and the consistent focus on attack

 

[RedxMAK]

Except Xavi won the league with super lucky 1-0 wins and opponents missing sitters and then got trashed in Europa league. The football was trash and real had an incomplete team. I don't know if you guys are really dense or just watch with your eyes closed on tiktok

Put some respect on his name, super lucky 1-0 wins is crazy. Most of the time Barcelona missed many chances in those games and Xavi simply had to adjust to the lack of a ready team. Conceding 20 goals in 38 games is legendary only 2 teams have conceded less. In Europe, Xavi tried his best as we competed against Bayern in the Allianz Arena and we wasted too many chances, that compounded by the injuries and questionable decisions we suffered caused the exit. Also the EL was pointless, it was obvious the players had no ambition for that

 

[RedxMAK]

They meant Xavi is close to van gaal in that he left the team in a solid state when after he left.

Which I'm sure you know thats what was meant lol, not coaching style.

Barca DNA is pep and cryuff, others who are some what different comes in time to time.

But it's cryuff and pep, the two coaches that leveled up the club to a different level.

If flick can do the same, he could have a long term impact on our "DNA".

I don’t understand the Van Gaal and Xavi connection, cause Barcelona 1999-2000 ended trophyless and so did Barcelona 2023-24

 

[Birdy]

Control would be to play a bit more conservatively when you're up 1-2 goals in a hostile environment away with not many minutes to play, where you instruct the players to try to slow down the tempo and not try to spam attacks and risk losing possession in a position where you open up yourself up for a counter-attack.

Maybe not have your backline so high up the pitch either. Obviously not saying they should park the bus, but you can try to slow the game down, a play a bit more conservatively and force the opposition to be the ones to commit higher up the pitch. That way you might also get a couple of opportunities to counter-attack to seal the game.

Whether you trust your team to be able to soak up the pressure is another discussion, but with our squad and the situation we're in right now, Flick will need to be more flexible at times.

This is not the Bundesliga of the late 2010s and very early 2020s that he was a part of. Teams here will use their brains and various tactics instead of playing like the usual German mid-table team of years ago that would play suicidal football and let Bayern score 8 goals on them.

His subs and rotations in general so far have been terrible as well. Rotated against the wrong team and time. Subbed out the wrong players.

Like with Raphinha in the recent game. Maybe he was tired? But then why have you kept him on so many times in games where we have led with 3+ goals? Maybe if you subbed him out then from time to time he'd be fresh enough to play the full 90 in a game like the recent one?

1) The line was not high enough against Betis, and that costed us. 0 offsides must be record of the season.
You say you don't want 'parking the bus', but playing a semi-high line is being caught in between two minds, and messing up with the clarity of approach

Contrary to what you say, we are precisely vulnerable when the line does not advance higher.
We saw that even a few crosses can create us problems

2) 'Soaking up' pressure means in plain English sitting deeper and defending, hoping you don't concede...
The whole idea of 'protecting a lead' by defending is the most anti-Barca thing parroted.
I don't remember you guys liking Valverde's football which was all about protecting leads.

But it also dangerous...
We are simply not a team that is good in defending low, we never were (under any previous manager)

3) slow down tempo goes against the tactical identity of this team.
Again, as I have said many times the last days: a team plays a certain way and that doesn't change depending on the whims of a Barca fan. Either you have slowed down buildup approach, like Xavi's in the amateur version or Pep's in the WC version, or you have a different approach
Did Klopp ever switched to slowed tempo in a game ? NO
Did Pep ever played direct football when he had certain opponent? NO
you can't have your cake and eat it too

This whole idea of changing style of play is alien to any even decent (let alone WC) manager, and it's frankly a small-team mentality idea

4) The comparison with Bundesliga of late 2010s is not charitable to say the least.
Did Flick play against the suicidal sides you describe this season until the Sociedad game?
Not really... We faced teams that wanted to sit really deep both in LL and in CL, and we carved them open.
It's a misconstrual of Flickball to claim that it works only against suicidal teams

5) Lack of rotations is obviously a problem.
But is it down on Flick or on the board and the state of the squad?
Apart from Gavi (now back after long-term injury), and possible Fermin
is there anyone else that comes in the XI and doesn't drop IMMENSELY the quality ?

 

[Birdy]

I want us to not rush attacks constantly resulting in chaotic end to end games. More structure, less chaos. It doesn't mean that some directness is not welcome. Flick needs to fix it or we will continue to face multiple shots because teams in La Liga defend pretty well and know how to attack spaces. Teams have a go at us far more often than in the past, I do not like this. You can't score 3-4 goals in every match and if you constantly face 10+ shots at your goal you will lose too many points in the long run.

So far, if we don't score 3+ vs a decent team, we tend to lose points. It's a real problem and it's not something light.

We should be playing like Barca with some german edge, not like a naive German team with a feint Barcelona resemblance.

There isn't 'some directness' and 'some structure', like there isn't half-pregnancy.
You have to decide which style of football you want.

 

[Birdy]

People who blame the system don't understand the core of the problem. There is no magical way to hold a one goal win. Playing more defensively can invite the opponent to press more and he can score the same amount of goals against a deeper defense. There are thousands good and bad examples in every system.
We won the first games under Flick with one goal difference without problems with the same system. So what happened, did he forget how to win with 1 goal difference after 2 months?
No, the reason is because we controlled the games. You can controll it offensively with a high line, or defensevely with a deep backline, or you can lose control in both systems and concede. It has nothing to do with the system, but the players either physically able to control the game or not.

Most of the people that are blaming Flick for playing too high while leading are the same people, who insult the coach of sitting too deep while leading and conceding.

Word!

 

[Birdy]

He would be amongst the best coaches not just in the world but in history if season would only last 2-3 months and he could ran his starters to the ground without worrying about rest and rotations too much. But season is a marathon not a sprint.

My first worrying sign was after one of the first games of the season (don't remember which one) when he said something like "we couldn't press for 90 minutes and that will never happen again".

First you can't press effectively with a 36 year old grandpa as basically your first defender. Pep had Eto'o in his prime years who could ran two marathons in one game, Flick has Lewa on his last legs.

So he compensated for that using Lamine and especially Raphinha as first line of pressure. But ofc that brings consequences too as they will eventually get tired. I think they already are and hopefully there won't be any injuries but wouldn't surprise me to see their level drop in coming months. And Lewa is already looking like Lewa of second halfs of last two seasons (remember he started both of these seasons well too).

And second you can't expect to press full 90 minutes for a whole season. No team can do that and no smart coach would expect that from his players. Especially not in a competitive league when you don't have by far the best team like in Bayernliga. Without horse injections that made Goretzka look like Hulk too, lol. So you can't have press, press, press as your plans A, B, C, D,...

Yes, we probably don't have the perfect players for Flick's system but we all knew that when he took over. But if he's as good as some here believe he should still get the most out of existing squad. And not just for first two months of the season. If he wants to stay beyond this season he'll need to adapt because his plan A won't always work. Even "idiot" Xavi adapted and started to use four midfielders when he saw Busi struggled defensively, played 3 atb in some games etc. I don't care what formation we play but at least show some adaptability.

But Flick seemingly only knows one way to play. When that works we look like a top 5 team in Europe. When it doesn't we are in lower table form. I know every team has their up and downs and hopefully we are past our worst but there are some concerning patterns. And I was already seeing things I didn't like when everyone was elated we were beating likes of Valladolid 7-0. Why did we have to beat a dead horse? 3-0 or 7-0 against relegation fodder doesn't matter in a league that uses head to head and not goal difference as a potential tie-breaker.

Why Lamine and Raphi had to play those early games full 90 minutes? Not only you risk potential injuries but minutes accumulate fast so then they were suddenly tired ahead of a tough away game in Pamplona. As a coach you need to look not just one or two games ahead but in what state your team will be in 3-4 months. Ofc there are some things you can't predict but overusing key players early in the season is never a good sign.

You have valid points about Lewa, and about lack of squad depth to rotate.
The last point is not on Flick, but on the board

Then, you are wrong about pressing.
It's not that the team presses literally for 90 min, because that would imply that we don't have any of the ball, which won't happen with 95% of the team we face.
Flick's quote was all about the intensity of the pressing the moments the opposition buildsup.
And he was right, the team was getting lazy in being always ready to apply intensity.

BTW that happens with triggers, and not by instructing your players to chase opponents like headless chicken (what XAvi was doing the last seasons)

Bayern 19-21 did that, Klopp's Pool 18-20 did that. I don't see why this team can't do it with proper training and proper fitness regime.

 

[Maradona37]

Thank You, I Appreciate It. I Apologise For Capping Every Letter As It Is A Habit I Liked Doing For Years Now I’ll Try To Stop

I agree with him - you are a good lad and are a good poster. The caps thing doesn't bother me that much. I can see why it would others, though.

As for the actual conversation - I read through, some good points made on both sides, I think.

 

[jamrock]

No one said flick should change his style completely.

No coach does that, but to say pep or any other top coach has never told their team to settle on a 1 goal lead late in a game is complete and total bullshit.

1 goal up, let's slow it down, the opposition needs the goal, we don't, the opposition trys to push for a equalizer leaves open spaces, and boom, Liverpool, arsenal, Madrid, ajax, ac Milan, Santos, Brazil, Argentina, you name it, proceeds to score to make it a 2 goal lead.

The issue with flick is he doesn't make this tactical adjustment in game, situational awareness is very important we are 1 goal up with 15 minutes left, the team is still playing like they are 2 goals down with 80 minutes left.

Nothing to do with changing styles, everything to do with situational awareness, which ever top coach in every sport has.

The spurs don't play the same way 5 points up with 1 minute left on the clock.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

Can’t teach an old dawg new tricks

must be reverse-autism

 

[serghei]

1) The line was not high enough against Betis, and that costed us. 0 offsides must be record of the season.
You say you don't want 'parking the bus', but playing a semi-high line is being caught in between two minds, and messing up with the clarity of approach

Contrary to what you say, we are precisely vulnerable when the line does not advance higher.
We saw that even a few crosses can create us problems

2) 'Soaking up' pressure means in plain English sitting deeper and defending, hoping you don't concede...
The whole idea of 'protecting a lead' by defending is the most anti-Barca thing parroted.
I don't remember you guys liking Valverde's football which was all about protecting leads.

But it also dangerous...
We are simply not a team that is good in defending low, we never were (under any previous manager)

3) slow down tempo goes against the tactical identity of this team.
Again, as I have said many times the last days: a team plays a certain way and that doesn't change depending on the whims of a Barca fan. Either you have slowed down buildup approach, like Xavi's in the amateur version or Pep's in the WC version, or you have a different approach
Did Klopp ever switched to slowed tempo in a game ? NO
Did Pep ever played direct football when he had certain opponent? NO
you can't have your cake and eat it too

This whole idea of changing style of play is alien to any even decent (let alone WC) manager, and it's frankly a small-team mentality idea

4) The comparison with Bundesliga of late 2010s is not charitable to say the least.
Did Flick play against the suicidal sides you describe this season until the Sociedad game?
Not really... We faced teams that wanted to sit really deep both in LL and in CL, and we carved them open.
It's a misconstrual of Flickball to claim that it works only against suicidal teams

5) Lack of rotations is obviously a problem.
But is it down on Flick or on the board and the state of the squad?
Apart from Gavi (now back after long-term injury), and possible Fermin
is there anyone else that comes in the XI and doesn't drop IMMENSELY the quality ?

Birdy, at the end of the day Flick doesn't have to change anything. Results will show if his style works or not. If he can produce results then by all means play offside trap to death.

The recent discussions happen because the team is starting to produce poor results.

If he can turn it around by sticking to his guns then all the credit to him. If not, well, this is not Tottenham let's make that clear.

 

[jamrock]

Birdy, at the end of the day Flick doesn't have to change anything. Results will show if his style works or not. If he can produce results then by all means play offside trap to death.

The recent discussions happen because the team is starting to produce poor results.

If he can turn it around by sticking to his guns then all the credit to him. If not, well, this is not Tottenham let's make that clear.

Or arsenal* lol