Hans-Dieter Flick

[Porque]

I already said I understand fans not liking Xavi because the style of football we played was supposedly not Barca worthy.

But I take it with a grain of salt, this supposed "we accept coming up short if we try to play good football", not a direct quote to you but this is the direction of the theory. This is a club that has a 50% ratio of winning the league title in Spain for almost 30 years.

Playing well gives everyone hope that you will get closer and closer to glory, but the goal is always to win. Whoever doesn't think so is delusional to me.

That's why you don't throw bus parades unless you win. That's the end goal and the destination, but it doesn't mean the ride to that shouldn't be as enjoyable as possible.

Hey, I wasn't really referring to you. And have seen over the months of Flick how you are balanced in your opinion of him and mellowed on the Xavi term perspective.

As you say here, we can't play good football to the complete disregard of results and finish 3rd, 4th or whatever. There obviously has to be some sort of success crossover too.

Xavi tenure was also incredibly important, and we are better today because of it no doubt. The 22/23 league win was huge and if anything, also buys time for Flick to build to the next step this year. Imagine Flick coming in and playing the same season, but without Xavi LaLiga win and no LaLiga win since Valverde. Completely different circumstance and pressures.

But winning badly is only a very short term thing to paper the cracks. As you say it is a two and a half horse race, so we need to win the league every other year or so.

But even Madrid won the league with Capello and sacked him- twice. For the perspective of also having to play somewhat well for the fans.

 

[Barcaman]

Is Bumsi ever going to give us the front 4 we all want to see ????


,.......,........ Olmo (False 9)
Raph........FERMIN .......Lamine

Was just about to write something along those lines. Although, I do like Gavi a lot too.

Don't know if it'll happen again. Now that Ferran the brainless scored he is praised again by reactionary press so I guess he is in the mix until he has 3/4 terrible games again.

But yeah, Olmo up there switching positions with Raph or Fermin pushing left as another option gives us so much pace, creativity, and fluidity.

 

[TheStig]

Olmo can switch positions with Fati on which seat they sit, not much else. But yeah, I would also like to see those 4 (+ Gavi and Ferran in the mix).

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes, yes, I have heard Pep's latest speech. The manager is to blame when he can't make his players comfortable enough and prepared enough to perform as expected. I can agree with this very exigent appraisal of manager's responsability. As long as it's consistent.

No.. not the point.. I said his team choice was poor for Inter and he did not manage the PSG game well after Araujo sent off.

After Araujo fell into the trap PSG were clearly setting for him.

Players made mistakes and Xavi did also.. on flip side they should have had decisions away to Inter and Bayern.

The best team Barca beat in Europe in his whole time was probably Napoli.. a Napoli side in turmoil.

All coaches make mistakes. When keep making same ones it is when become a worry.

Flick is not free of making mistakes either. Clearly and he will be judged in same way as Xavi and all Barca coaches.

 

[jamrock]

Re fewer points / worse league run.

I hope Xavi apologists also feel that many of the points we dropped this season were unfair. Bad luck and refs are easy to blame so won't go into that. What's important is that at the end of the game, despite dropping points there are lots of positives. Whereas with Xavi we'd get outplayed and lose due to Xavi's mistakes.

In those Flick games we have created a bunch of chances but failed to score. The game where Flick properly shot himself in the foot was the heavy rotations v Osasuna.

Our highest level is much higher than Xavi's which is something I value a lot. Floor is also higher even if results don't reflect that. But if you watch the games it's clear that Flick is better suited for this current Barca and able to take them to next level compared to Xavi who was finished with his whiny loser culture.

We lost many points last season for Xavi due to bad calls as well, especially as the start of the season, match trend here can be seen for evidence of that.

That's that doesn't matter it works both ways, we are FC Barcelona playing in spain we will always get bad calls.

Just to clear about your first point

 

[jamrock]

It was much more often to lose points to players fuck-ups during Xavi than due to Xavi's mistakes. Let's not forget how we lost in CL vs Inter, PSG for example, comedy error show in defense. Two key games in which the players fucked the manager basically.

Our highest level is more enjoyable and simply better under Flick than under Xavi. No comment here, absolutely true. We play more attacking and faster, albeit with more systemic problems in defense. Defensive stability was superior with Xavi, especially in 2022-23. It remains to be seen if Flick can win a big title while conceding so many goals, and how will we do when the attack has a less productive day. The jury is still out on this one, and it's a major point because the no1 objective is to win.

At the end of the day, the only valid and important criticisim of Xavi was that he was more pragmatic, and that the quality of football we played was less in the direction some Barca fans hoped. I can understand fans not liking this long term. Xavi probably didn't like it much either.

What's clear, and beyond doubt, is you can't blame the players and refs in Flick's case, but with Xavi, when people pointed to these mittigating circumstances, the "no excuses" narrative was often served.

Exactly at the last part, we lost many points at the start of last season due to bad calls

 

[Messigician]

Genuinely a better season to win Supercopa and have less 'average points' in 2nd if lose league early anyway.

Genuinely no that’s retarded

 

[JamDav1982]

Genuinely no that’s retarded

Nah it isnt.

Genuinely retarded to think few more points more beneficial than Supercopa.

 

[draconifire]

Is Bumsi ever going to give us the front 4 we all want to see ????


,.......,........ Olmo (False 9)
Raph........FERMIN .......Lamine


Or is he still going to insist on Lewa and rate Gavi above Fermin?

Think Fermin is a better false 9.
But anyways those two will be interchanging.

 

[Messigician]

Nah it isnt.

Genuinely retarded to think few more points more beneficial than Supercopa.

If the Saudi cup was called community shield no one would care

 

[JamDav1982]

If the Saudi cup was called community shield no one would care

Beating Real to a trophy, the extra cash for it etc all mean more than finishing second a few points closer.

And the point is not that it means a huge amount in scheme of thing either.

 

[serghei]

No.. not the point.. I said his team choice was poor for Inter and he did not manage the PSG game well after Araujo sent off.

After Araujo fell into the trap PSG were clearly setting for him.

Players made mistakes and Xavi did also.. on flip side they should have had decisions away to Inter and Bayern.

The best team Barca beat in Europe in his whole time was probably Napoli.. a Napoli side in turmoil.

All coaches make mistakes. When keep making same ones it is when become a worry.

Flick is not free of making mistakes either. Clearly and he will be judged in same way as Xavi and all Barca coaches.

If you're aiming for a more detailed analysis, there's no such thing as a player losing you a match on his own, we as fans use this for dramatic effect. Besides, it's not only Araujo that played like shite vs PSG. Cancelo played like a bum and gifted them 2 goals after that. So it's more like a cascade of fucking up by several players. Also vs Inter the same. You have clown Pique at it at 1-0 for us, but then you also have clown no2 Eric Garcia getting beaten 1 vs 1 like a Segunda player vs Lautaro.

 

[JamDav1982]

If you're aiming for a more detailed analysis, there's no such thing as players losing you a match on their own, we just as fans use this for dramatic effect. Besides, it's not only Araujo that played like shite vs PSG. Cancelo played like a bum and gifted them 2 goals after that.

Xavi managed like a bum and his team conceded 4 little over an hour to go out.

Players make mistakes.. coaches do.. when both come together the results are Inter/PSG etc.

PSG were not a strong side.. They scored six and must have hit the woodwork another 4 times across the two legs.

Then went out without scoring in two games against Dortmund.

 

[serghei]

Xavi managed like a bum and his team conceded 4 little over an hour to go out.

Players make mistakes.. coaches do.. when both come together the results are Inter/PSG etc.

PSG were not a strong side.. They scored six and must have hit the woodwork another 4 times across the two legs.

Then went out without scoring in two games against Dortmund.

Yeah, every lost match is a collection of mistakes by players and managers. Every manager has bum moments by your metric.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think Xavi was lost in his own ideas last season and had become so uptight he started to be terrified of losing as much as winning.

Some of his antics on sidelines and way berated players and then excuse after excuse after games created too much of an anxious and negative atmosphere in too many of the big moments.

Maybe Barca just means too much for him to approach it with a cooler head.

Good for him if can learn from it and go again. Would guess he would have to be calmer and clearer in ideas he first arrived with.

Much much prefer Flick as a man manager to this point and fact he has a clearer more positive idea of how he wants his Barca team to play... with the risks that involves.