Jack Wilshere

[gunnerthoughts]

I don't even have to reply to all that manure.

It's simple really; we spend the 4th biggest wages in the league, and net spend below 10th in transfer fees in the league, and we finished 3rd last season - we are currently overachieving.

There's a reason Real Madrid (arguably the biggest club in the world) have been after Wenger for years.

 

[gunnerthoughts]

Sounds like you're just going for the opinion that's popular at the moment. Put a little more thought into it.

Here's a little stat/fact for you:

Between 1997-2005 Arsenal averaged 3.75 departures per season. Between 2006-2012 Arsenal have averaged 7 departures per season.
Between 1997-2005 Arsenal averaged 7 signings per season. Between 2006-2012 Arsenal have averaged 4.8 signings per season.
Major departures in 1997-2005: Wright, Anelka, Overmars*, Petit* (Only Upson maybe could be added to this)
Major departures in 2005-2012: Vieira, Reyes, Cole, Flamini, Hleb*, Henry*, Adebayor, Toure, Clichy, Cesc*, Nasri, Van Persie, Song* (Probably missed out many more)

I'm sure you can guess which Arsenal period was successful, too.

How can we compete with United/City/Chelsea financially right now? Answer is simple: we cannot.

 

[Deco 20]

What's with the asterisks?

 

[Doobs]

Players transfered to Barca by the looks of it.

 

[Deco 20]

oh, you're right. I was expecting him to mark French players, but that was obviously not the case

 

[Smile]

Sounds like you're just going for the opinion that's popular at the moment. Put a little more thought into it.

Here's a little stat/fact for you:

Between 1997-2005 Arsenal averaged 3.75 departures per season. Between 2006-2012 Arsenal have averaged 7 departures per season.
Between 1997-2005 Arsenal averaged 7 signings per season. Between 2006-2012 Arsenal have averaged 4.8 signings per season.
Major departures in 1997-2005: Wright, Anelka, Overmars*, Petit* (Only Upson maybe could be added to this)
Major departures in 2005-2012: Vieira, Reyes, Cole, Flamini, Hleb*, Henry*, Adebayor, Toure, Clichy, Cesc*, Nasri, Van Persie, Song* (Probably missed out many more)

I'm sure you can guess which Arsenal period was successful, too.

How can we compete with United/City/Chelsea financially right now? Answer is simple: we cannot.

I've always had this opinion about Arsenal and Wenger and can’t keep up with United finically when United have £400m debt and Arsenal are debt free and forever going on about how much profit the club makes, riiiight

You’ll never change my views on Wenger, record is there for all to see, he’s not an elite manager, even the one thing Arsenal and he ‘supposedly’ pride themselves on (developing talent) I’d say they are poor at, if I was a young player, a footballer in general, I wouldn’t go anywhere near Arsenal put it that way.

17 year old Walcott, had all the talent in all the world, 6/7 years on very inconsistent, not really improved in any way, if he went to United/Liverpool/Spurs anywhere like that i honestly believe he'd be a lot more developed than he is right now.

Ramsey – Declined since he moved to Arsenal

Ox Chamberlin, 2 years on no improvement, if anything seems to be declining.

Vermaelen, declined.

Gibbs – 23 years old now, keep hearing how he's Englands future LB, not really impressive or improving though.

Only player who is improving is Wilshere and I wouldn’t say that’s Wenger’s doing, he’s just a natural talent who would develop naturally without any coaching - As for everyone else in your current squad (Koscielny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Santos, Squillaci, Gervihno, Arshavin, Rosiscky, Girould, Chamakah) would you say all these are fantastic Wenger signings? Players who are improving and players Wenger gets the best out of?

Looking at that, poor club/poor manager and poor everything really apart from how good their bank balance is with little success on the football pitch, if they want sucess on the pitch, it's clear Arsenal need a new approach and someone with new ideas.

 

[Jenks]

Smile you are living in some sort of bizarre fantasy world if you believe Walcott has not developed much. His improvement over that last couple of years or so has been immense.

 

[Smile]

Really? Is that why he was sat on the bench start of this season and only started really starting games from Novemeber. 2 years ago everyone was calling him a player with no football brain, I never, I just put it down to poor coaching.

I’ve noticed an improvement this season but 6/7 years on, really? It’s taken this long for consistency and an end product to come to Theo Walcott? And I like the guy, but fact he should have been a lot better than he showed previous seasons and I believe he should be a lot more developed even now, the guy should be like Henry now with the talent he had as a 17 year old.

Hopefully he can get to that level, but his development has been slow and only thing you can put it down to is coaching, especially when you look at other Arsenal players (I talked about) who show no improvement or are already established but declining without age as factor.

 

[Jenks]

17 year old Walcott, had all the talent in all the world, 6/7 years on very inconsistent, not really improved in any way,

I’ve noticed an improvement this season

 

[Doobs]

 

[Smile]

Ok a little contradiction, but you know what i mean.

'A little' improvement since Christmas, mainly since he started playing striker, i've certainly seen no "immense progression last few YEARS" you've been talking about, have a Pep face in your direction too by just saying that.

 

[Jenks]

I'd say that's a pretty noticeable improvement on what came before it.

Arsenal are one of the best clubs in the country at developing players. I can't think of any other clubs in the league that takes relative unknowns and turns them into stars the way Arsenal does. Even if you want to look strictly at their academy products, Wilshere and Gibbs are just as big a pair of prospects as Cleverley and Welbeck are, if not more so.

 

[ammarfcb]

 

[Smile]

Ah, so you're a stat man rather than looking at the true picture

Berbatov won the golden boot 2 years ago, season after was dropped and barely played and season after that sold for next to nothing, what does that tell you? Tells me people should watch football for 90mins and see how things really are with their own eyeballs rather than looking at piece of paper/tables and diagrams.

In Walcott's case, everyone knows the guy has (so far) as failed to live up to his potential, everyone knows he has frustrated/lacked a football brain and technical ability, which is strange because that's one thing Walcott should loads of early career.

Signs look promising lately & I'm excited (as i said in the England thread) that signs are he's progressing and COULD be the player everyone in England hoped he would be when he first joined Arsenal, but no way am i going to pretend i was blind for the last 6/7 years watching Theo Walcott and make out he's been something he's not and Arsenal have been great from him because he hasn't and i don't believe Arsenal have been great for him either.

 

[jamrock]

What potential did walcott have he could run the 100m in 10 secs, that's about it, we get has done a good job to develop the raw resources he was given