Jack Wilshere

[Jenks]

Ah, so you're a stat man rather than looking at the true picture

I look at both, but when you dealing with the type of person who would deny Arsenal credit for developing Wilshere because it suits his argument, then it's much easier to use cold hard irrefutable facts. He's gone from a glorified sprinter who knew where the goals was, someone who many said would never make it because he had no football brain, to perhaps the most effective winger in the league. He's developed massively, if not consistently.

 

[Smile]

I look at both, but when you dealing with the type of person who would deny Arsenal credit for developing Wilshere because it suits his argument, then it's much easier to use cold hard irrefutable facts. He's gone from a glorified sprinter who knew where the goals was, someone who many said would never make it because he had no football brain, to perhaps the most effective winger in the league. He's developed massively, if not consistently.

Well least I know which team you support.

 

[Jenks]

In the same way that you knew I wasn't English, yes.

 

[Smile]

I don’t think you know who you are yourself mate, you come out with that much stupid stuff, when you say something constructive and informative you’ll say something completely bonkers straight after and let yourself down, you’re like the Ray Wilkins of football forums.

I’ve only seen in you in a few threads and I’ve seen the Welsh thing, you saying this young school kid at Aston Villa who no one even knows, not even Google could be the next Jack Wilshere yet dismiss the likes of Will Hughes (amongst others) who is bossing games at high level at just 17 and is being scouted all throughout the globe, then you come out with the above

Do you want me to tell you how ridiculous what you’ve just said sounds? Ok you know Gareth Bale’s improvement, him scoring a Hattrick at the San Siro etc? Well it’s like someone then saying ‘Gareth Bale is probably the best left back in the PL’ when he’s not, Bale is an average LB, the improvement started when he moved out on the wings, Bale the left back should not be compared to Bale the winger.

Same with Walcott, headless chicken on the wings, can do a job maybe yes, but will never live up to his potential if he stays out there BUT since he’s been playing striker *BAM* IMPROVEMENT!

 

[ryaninho]

I've always had this opinion about Arsenal and Wenger and can’t keep up with United finically when United have £400m debt and Arsenal are debt free and forever going on about how much profit the club makes, riiiight

You’ll never change my views on Wenger, record is there for all to see, he’s not an elite manager, even the one thing Arsenal and he ‘supposedly’ pride themselves on (developing talent) I’d say they are poor at, if I was a young player, a footballer in general, I wouldn’t go anywhere near Arsenal put it that way.

17 year old Walcott, had all the talent in all the world, 6/7 years on very inconsistent, not really improved in any way, if he went to United/Liverpool/Spurs anywhere like that i honestly believe he'd be a lot more developed than he is right now.

Ramsey – Declined since he moved to Arsenal

Ox Chamberlin, 2 years on no improvement, if anything seems to be declining.

Vermaelen, declined.

Gibbs – 23 years old now, keep hearing how he's Englands future LB, not really impressive or improving though.

Only player who is improving is Wilshere and I wouldn’t say that’s Wenger’s doing, he’s just a natural talent who would develop naturally without any coaching - As for everyone else in your current squad (Koscielny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Santos, Squillaci, Gervihno, Arshavin, Rosiscky, Girould, Chamakah) would you say all these are fantastic Wenger signings? Players who are improving and players Wenger gets the best out of?

Looking at that, poor club/poor manager and poor everything really apart from how good their bank balance is with little success on the football pitch, if they want sucess on the pitch, it's clear Arsenal need a new approach and someone with new ideas.

@smile seriously mate i think you have a problem with arsen and arsenal to say the things you are saying. i've read you above post and previous ones. You seem to pull out random facts out of thin air just to support yor agument. like saying theo did not improve till he was played as CF is rubbish. This season he was showing big improvement which could be, because no one is focusing on RVP anymore. And also most of his goals came from the wings this season. HIm playing CF in a few games was to make sure he signs and Giruod being out injured (like i said know the whole facts before you state them). Arsen and Arsenal can take all the credit for jack, because i can confidently say that he would be the player he is today without his tutorlage or footballing philosophy.

I also diagree with you saying Arsenal does not develop youth players is rubbish and to say united, liverpool and spurs do a beter job is just stupid. Who has spusrs develop that is so great? who has liverpool developt since gerro and carra (sterling was not they product they bought him not to long ago)? Can clearvaly guy hold a candle to jack? welbeck was so good that fergie had to buy RVP.

Ramsey decline came after is almost career ending leg break, before that he was even better than jack. another fact you pulled out of thin air with out stating all of it

gibs is one of the best LB out there but again injury prone if he was not baines would not get a looking.

ox has been with Arsenal 1 season get it right. Arsen does not want another jack where to many games young followed by long injury the kid is only 19

all those players you metioned not improving is hit and miss. kosh was the second best CB last season after kompany so much so he got a call up to the french NT (short memory people have) have not had a good run in the team since injury. Chamcks decline came when RVP came back from injury he could not get a game, before that atthe start of his arsenal career he scored 10 goals before christmas which is good for a new comer. Asharvin was already 25+ when he came to arsenal so in his peak and he proved how good he was, but his attitude was a huge problem. Rosicky has been injured for a long time and before he was he was of the best cm/am in the pl (again short memory). sqallici ok from the get go was shit. sagna came from a leg break he has admitely been a bit hot and cold in his return, but otherwise been the best RB in the pl for years now. Whats wrong with Giroud 11 goals 9 assist first season so far in the pl.

 

[Athletic]

Arshavin was a fantastic signing tbh

 

[Jenks]

I don’t think you know who you are yourself mate, you come out with that much stupid stuff, when you say something constructive and informative you’ll say something completely bonkers straight after and let yourself down, you’re like the Ray Wilkins of football forums.

No I'm not, and no I don't. I back everything I say up with reasoning, whether you agree or not. What I don't do on the other hand, is go on random ad hominem rants when debating a point with someone. Debate the post, not the poster.

I’ve only seen in you in a few threads and I’ve seen the Welsh thing, you saying this young school kid at Aston Villa who no one even knows, not even Google could be the next Jack Wilshere yet dismiss the likes of Will Hughes (amongst others) who is bossing games at high level at just 17 and is being scouted all throughout the globe, then you come out with the above.

I never dismissed Will Hughes. I said he's not at the level that Wilshere was at his age as you had claimed, which he isn't.

Do you want me to tell you how ridiculous what you’ve just said sounds? Ok you know Gareth Bale’s improvement, him scoring a Hattrick at the San Siro etc? Well it’s like someone then saying ‘Gareth Bale is probably the best left back in the PL’ when he’s not, Bale is an average LB, the improvement started when he moved out on the wings, Bale the left back should not be compared to Bale the winger.

Given that Bale was playing as a winger at the time, I don't think your analogy works.

Same with Walcott, headless chicken on the wings, can do a job maybe yes, but will never live up to his potential if he stays out there BUT since he’s been playing striker *BAM* IMPROVEMENT!

Walcott has spent the vast majority of his time this season playing on the wing, not up front. Besides, his improvement was noticeable last season and the season before too.

 

[VenusA]

who's the best talented Jack Wilshere OR Thiago Alcantara OR Isco ?

 

[Deco 20]

Difficult to say, all are good players

 

[jamrock]

Isco
Thiago
Wilshere

 

[DonAndres]

Thiago
Isco
Wilshere

Wilshere is a great talent (by far the best one for England) but don't buy into too much hype just because he is English and gets surrounded by the media. Even Isco is getting a tad too much hype for my liking. He's amazing, but not as much as he is portrayed to be in the media. Thiago is proving to be more mature and talented than all of them (despite the fact that he wasn't that great last game) and is the best of the three.

 

[United4Life]

Wilshere
Cleverly
Thiago

 

[ryaninho]

Thiago
Isco
Wilshere

Wilshere is a great talent (by far the best one for England) but don't buy into too much hype just because he is English and gets surrounded by the media. Even Isco is getting a tad too much hype for my liking. He's amazing, but not as much as he is portrayed to be in the media. Thiago is proving to be more mature and talented than all of them (despite the fact that he wasn't that great last game) and is the best of the three.

Please over hyped please. His hype came because of his talent. You are fogetting a 19yr old wilshere took the game to xavi, busi and inanista at the emriates a few seasons back. Isco has not done that nor has cleverly.
for me its:
wilshere/thiago
wilshere/thiago
isco

I cant decide between wilshere or thiago they both eclips those of they age bracet by far

 

[DonAndres]

Wilshere's absolutely great i never denied that but Thiago has proven much more. I guess I'll have to admit Wilshere is better than Isco because i mainly preferred Isco for his flair and for being Spanish. He hasn't proven himself until this year and it's still too early to judge him. My apologies for that. New list would go:

Thiago
Wilshere
Isco

 

[JackaL]

Arsene Wenger did much more than people think of recently

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/d363b054-6548-11e2-8b03-00144feab49a.html#axzz2JLX6xiOA