Like I said, typical Mourinho fanboy with no football knowledge. Yes, Mourinho pisses on all of them, he is God of all managers.
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Like I said, typical Mourinho fanboy with no football knowledge. Yes, Mourinho pisses on all of them, he is God of all managers.
jamrock
Senior Member
can't hold pep having the best players in the world at his disposal against him and not highlight the fact that jose has had the most expensively assembled squad in each of the four leagues he has coached in and has not approached anything like the level of football pep has done it his limited time at barca.
pep doesn't need to go anywhere to show his greatness if he stays at barca and continue to do what he is doing ala SAF we all know who will be remember as the greater coach when its all said and done.
criteria Beast uses for tactical greatness and that which poncirus uses are two totally different things so they will never agree, but wenger is not better tactically that jose and if something doesn't think Marcelo Bielsa is a better tactical mastermind than jose, they are failing to understand what tactics really are and is getting it mixed up with a coach that has found a winning system and thicks to in, through no original thought of his own.
pep doesn't need to go anywhere to show his greatness if he stays at barca and continue to do what he is doing ala SAF we all know who will be remember as the greater coach when its all said and done.
criteria Beast uses for tactical greatness and that which poncirus uses are two totally different things so they will never agree, but wenger is not better tactically that jose and if something doesn't think Marcelo Bielsa is a better tactical mastermind than jose, they are failing to understand what tactics really are and is getting it mixed up with a coach that has found a winning system and thicks to in, through no original thought of his own.
Yes, Wenger is sometimes careless and myopic when it comes to adjusting his team's game for particular opponent and Jose is much better at that. But you can't deny Wenger's ability to coach a group of young players to play in various setups of attacking and expansive football. And to be constantly in the top3 of the Premier league. I don't think Mourinho would be capable of it.
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Beast
The Observer
Level of greatness will be achieved if he continue with the same momentum after the current generation ends , it's not something to be hold against him but also something that would help any coach to get the best ..
the level of football is in before Pep set foot in the managerial position ... let's not forget Frank was playing some great orgasmic football and achieved all what Pep achieved as well (not in the same season though ) , until he achieve what SAF did (consistency with different set of players ) you have to admit he is damn lucky to be coaching such a rare set of players in one team but i cannot say he is one of the greatest.. not yet he has all the signs but he need to prove it on a longer run or in a different league /team and that's something Jose (hate him or love him ) did manage to achieve and it's not debatable
And i'm sorry but i have to disagree with the Porto side .. it was not expensive nor any of them achieved any form of success after Jose left except for Deco followed by Carvalho.. the rest (Ferriera , Benny Macarthy and co ) didn't show anything but mediocrity .
finding a winning system is not something u can describe Jose if you want to talk tactics.. he didn't play with the same formation but took different formation for every team /players he had..
first year @ Inter tried the 4-4-2 /4-3-3 and the wingers failed him he switched to 4-3-1-2 and won it all , with us it's 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 depending on the game..
with Chelsea 4-3-3 than 4-4-1-1/4-4-2... if you think Real Madrid play the same way as Inter under Jose than you watched neither of them .
Loco Bielsa is actually overrated as a manager... that's like saying Higuita was a legendary keeper simply because he performed daring moves.. doesn't mean he is better than Sepp or Iker.. it means he was crazy
jamrock
Senior Member
their was not a better team on paper than porto during his time in portugal, have to give him credit for what e did in Europe though, but thats a whole other debate
making a slight change your tactics doesn't make you a tactical genius beast, that is the point i am arguing, yes he is a good tactician, but at the end of the day all though teams were at their core the same team any competent manger would change their system to fit the players they have at their disposal.
any competent manager given the resources jose has and the win at all cost attitude, not caring what kind of football is team plays would have come close are match what he has done so far, just look at lippi and capello, they type of football he plays is the easy of the 2-4 most commonly used system most coach uses in football today.
to be reactive is much easier that to be proactive.
Ps What pep did is on a whole other level from what rijkaard has done, rijkaard gave us a system to get the best out of certain player, pep has a tactical framework that totally dominates damn near every team barca plays against and is damn near unbeatable, bar a few lucky wins from opposing managers over the years.
rijkaard game closing to losing the CL final against ten men, he was never that tactically astute, no one can imagine the same thing happening to pep
pep has achieved a level of football with this special set of players, that no other young coach playing today(jose included) has come close to achieving.
jose with his type of management given the same player, would not come close either is just not in his style of management.
making a slight change your tactics doesn't make you a tactical genius beast, that is the point i am arguing, yes he is a good tactician, but at the end of the day all though teams were at their core the same team any competent manger would change their system to fit the players they have at their disposal.
any competent manager given the resources jose has and the win at all cost attitude, not caring what kind of football is team plays would have come close are match what he has done so far, just look at lippi and capello, they type of football he plays is the easy of the 2-4 most commonly used system most coach uses in football today.
to be reactive is much easier that to be proactive.
Ps What pep did is on a whole other level from what rijkaard has done, rijkaard gave us a system to get the best out of certain player, pep has a tactical framework that totally dominates damn near every team barca plays against and is damn near unbeatable, bar a few lucky wins from opposing managers over the years.
rijkaard game closing to losing the CL final against ten men, he was never that tactically astute, no one can imagine the same thing happening to pep
pep has achieved a level of football with this special set of players, that no other young coach playing today(jose included) has come close to achieving.
jose with his type of management given the same player, would not come close either is just not in his style of management.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
yup.
Beast
The Observer
Of course i'm not talking about the local league .. nor am i talking about Pep or Frank in la liga.. it's a given but the European progress
I bet on Jose earlier this season changing his way with Madrid and he actually did just that.. the football played by Real this season suits Real and la liga and far cry from Jose previous managerial adventures , to the extent even Cruyff noted that and praised Jose right before the Clasico in his weekly column . even vs the stronger Barca Jose didn't set the team to defend
Now we can sit and say Frank wasn't tactically astute but back then he received the same thing Pep is having now..especially after you won a rare CL (while your history is full of false dawns ) was it Frank or Deco/Dinho/Eto'o ? will it be Pep or Messi/Xavi/Iniesta and above all the much stronger defense than the one Frank had (Hi Belletti,Sylvinho and the Ogg master )
the money , fame and players Frank introduced and upped their level (that include Messi,Xavi,Iniesta,Puyol ) is the reason Pep is able to dominate .. it was his work that gave Xavi this level , introduced Messi , turned Puyol to a solid defender and brought up this thin Iniesta to this level...
hard to tell now as i said it will be after those player retire /he leaves before you can judge Pep without those factor
As i said he shows all signs of a brilliant manager (without the eye for scouting ) but you have to consider the team needed a strong man management and some reinforcement they never lacked the talent or the tactical setup , the pass and move was long time barca mark before Pep played in the first team and that's the same way Barca dominate possession till now
and let's not forget that same level of football and dominating possession was achieved by Spain in the WC successfully without Messi which resulted less goals
I bet on Jose earlier this season changing his way with Madrid and he actually did just that.. the football played by Real this season suits Real and la liga and far cry from Jose previous managerial adventures , to the extent even Cruyff noted that and praised Jose right before the Clasico in his weekly column . even vs the stronger Barca Jose didn't set the team to defend
Now we can sit and say Frank wasn't tactically astute but back then he received the same thing Pep is having now..especially after you won a rare CL (while your history is full of false dawns ) was it Frank or Deco/Dinho/Eto'o ? will it be Pep or Messi/Xavi/Iniesta and above all the much stronger defense than the one Frank had (Hi Belletti,Sylvinho and the Ogg master )
the money , fame and players Frank introduced and upped their level (that include Messi,Xavi,Iniesta,Puyol ) is the reason Pep is able to dominate .. it was his work that gave Xavi this level , introduced Messi , turned Puyol to a solid defender and brought up this thin Iniesta to this level...
hard to tell now as i said it will be after those player retire /he leaves before you can judge Pep without those factor
As i said he shows all signs of a brilliant manager (without the eye for scouting ) but you have to consider the team needed a strong man management and some reinforcement they never lacked the talent or the tactical setup , the pass and move was long time barca mark before Pep played in the first team and that's the same way Barca dominate possession till now
and let's not forget that same level of football and dominating possession was achieved by Spain in the WC successfully without Messi which resulted less goals
jamrock
Senior Member
To the pep factor i will simply say pressing, pressure, two simple things that have changed everything
Joses could do nothing but play attacking in the classico its the minimum expected from any real manager, imagine if he had play his usual style of football and lost 1-0 he would have been killed by the fans and press alike, see capello.
the rest doesn't make much sense has his teams always put a few pass the lesser teams in the league, so he really hasn't changed that much its just that in di maria, ronaldo and ozil he has more expressive players than he has had at any time before.
its against the better teams that he will revert to type, i would be shocked if he played so attacking in the next classico, he knows he is not going enough nor his in team to pull it off against barca, the only thing he will think of is the exact same thing he always thinks of doing to stop a team he thinks is as good are better than his team.
anyways i grow tired of this, their is a set definition for genius, this is not subjective matter is is purely objective, he has added nothing nor invent nothing in regards to the game, so he cannot be defined has such, say a great manager, a legendary one, the best of his generation, but don't say a tactical genius, its an insult.
Joses could do nothing but play attacking in the classico its the minimum expected from any real manager, imagine if he had play his usual style of football and lost 1-0 he would have been killed by the fans and press alike, see capello.
the rest doesn't make much sense has his teams always put a few pass the lesser teams in the league, so he really hasn't changed that much its just that in di maria, ronaldo and ozil he has more expressive players than he has had at any time before.
its against the better teams that he will revert to type, i would be shocked if he played so attacking in the next classico, he knows he is not going enough nor his in team to pull it off against barca, the only thing he will think of is the exact same thing he always thinks of doing to stop a team he thinks is as good are better than his team.
anyways i grow tired of this, their is a set definition for genius, this is not subjective matter is is purely objective, he has added nothing nor invent nothing in regards to the game, so he cannot be defined has such, say a great manager, a legendary one, the best of his generation, but don't say a tactical genius, its an insult.
AnfieldEd
I am Leg End
What pep brought to barca was some much needed discipline and a work ethic that is amazing.
For me Pep is currently the No.1 manager in the world simply because of his man management of the team and because he has kept up the discipline and has made the players just as hungry as they were in 2008.
I do get Gio's point though that to be an all time great manager then either sustained longevity and success with Barca with building 2 or 3 different teams or building another successful team in another league will add greatly to his legacy.
Mourinho is a great manager not a tactical genius by any stretch of the imagination, or have we forgotten his plan b at chelsea of playing Robert Huth Up front?! Mourinho has great tactical plans and is great at making an impact in game time with either substitutions or making changes to the system, but I would not consider mourinho a tactical genius.
TBH the only 2 managers who are either active or semi retired that I consider to be tactical geniuses at this moment in time are Lippi and Capello.
For me Pep is currently the No.1 manager in the world simply because of his man management of the team and because he has kept up the discipline and has made the players just as hungry as they were in 2008.
I do get Gio's point though that to be an all time great manager then either sustained longevity and success with Barca with building 2 or 3 different teams or building another successful team in another league will add greatly to his legacy.
Mourinho is a great manager not a tactical genius by any stretch of the imagination, or have we forgotten his plan b at chelsea of playing Robert Huth Up front?! Mourinho has great tactical plans and is great at making an impact in game time with either substitutions or making changes to the system, but I would not consider mourinho a tactical genius.
TBH the only 2 managers who are either active or semi retired that I consider to be tactical geniuses at this moment in time are Lippi and Capello.
Rijkaard did great to renew the foundations of total football at Barca and introduced some emergeing talents that are now world's best players. He did fantastic job.
But Guardiola has introduced level of tactical complexity and adaptability. The discipline and intensity in which these tactics are applied is the new bencmhark in football. He has done that in his first two seasons. He's brilliant coach tactician, like he was most brilliant player tactician of his time IMO.
Mourinho has showed how far you can go with simplicistic, counterattacking football based on directness, pace and power. It's an unique achievment, but I don't think it's particulary brilliant tactics wise.
But Guardiola has introduced level of tactical complexity and adaptability. The discipline and intensity in which these tactics are applied is the new bencmhark in football. He has done that in his first two seasons. He's brilliant coach tactician, like he was most brilliant player tactician of his time IMO.
Mourinho has showed how far you can go with simplicistic, counterattacking football based on directness, pace and power. It's an unique achievment, but I don't think it's particulary brilliant tactics wise.
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Der Kaiser
New member
kaisers0ze
New member
Proffesionally a genius but humanly very barbaric.
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