La Liga 2020/21

[jairzinho]

I'm more interested in his system, approach, choice of personnel. Does it always work?, No.

Kroos, Modric and Benzema are still effective but past their prime sadly. Not being able to replace them is one of the problems for Madrid/Zidane.

Edit: Even then, Kroos, Mocric now and even last year were always superior to Busi, Raki.

 

[El Gato]

I'm more interested in his system, approach, choice of personnel. Does it always work?, No.

I'd love to discuss what you think that system is.

 

[jairzinho]

So basically, for a post Messi Barca I would go with this approach. A genuine destroyer. Casemiro, Fernandinho, Kante etc. interior midfielders who can shoot from range, good in the air, athletic, good stamina. But I would make an exception for at least one midfielder like a Thiago/Veratti
/Modric. Up front. Pure wingers and a 9 like Prime Lewa, Suarez, Cavani, Benzema. Those types.

Players like Puig, Busquets. I think we should begin to move away from these types. It worked under the golden era with Pep. Today, not so much. The game is more intense, players have insane physique, athleticism etc. we can barely keep up in CL.

So The template Zidane uses is what I would use albeit with better players here and there. But the formation and approach, I think we should go with that.

 

[El Gato]

Zidane doesn't use one template. That's kind of the crux. Hazard is not a pure winger. Asensio is not a pure winger. Odegaard doesnt fit any of these descriptions either.

None of it is as simple as 4-3-3 with a tank DM. Nor did Zidane teach any particular attacking schemes at all. Nothing we do is new and is part of the reason why our offense is fairly terrible by European top side standards.

 

[BarcaOG]

Benz Liga MVP so far

 

[Vilarrubi]

7 goals and counting @Wolfe

 

[El Gato]

Nice to see him keep up with Suarez

 

[Morten]

Benz Liga MVP so far

You know who is at the top of Whoscored rating for La Liga?

 

[JamDav1982]

If could swap any player from Real to Barca right now it would be Benzema. He has been best player in league in 2020.

The important goals/assists and not even on pens is impressive.

 

[Vilarrubi]

You know who is at the top of Whoscored rating for La Liga?

Messi?

 

[BarcaOG]

You know who is at the top of Whoscored rating for La Liga?

just looked it up i honestly cant believe it. just like him coming second in that silly The Best award. what year are people watching?

 

[jairzinho]

Zidane doesn't use one template. That's kind of the crux. Hazard is not a pure winger. Asensio is not a pure winger. Odegaard doesnt fit any of these descriptions either.

None of it is as simple as 4-3-3 with a tank DM. Nor did Zidane teach any particular attacking schemes at all. Nothing we do is new and is part of the reason why our offense is fairly terrible by European top side standards.

4-3-3/4-2-3-1, Zidane has a base in terms of personnel but he is flexible. Effective?, sometimes.

Vinicius, Rodrygo are pure wingers imo. Hazard and Asensio are not but they can function there aswell which is most important. So they can give you different options. Asensio reminds me of Fati. He is not a winger necessarily but he can function there because of his attributes. Good speed, can shoot, dribble etc. Heading?, not so much but good anyways. Peak Bale/Ronaldo was more complete in terms of shooting,heading,dribbing etc.

When you look at who Barca uses as wingers for example like Greizmann? Makes no sense to play him there. Coutinho, Pedri out wide in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1? It would never work. So for me, the personnel that Zidane has and the way his team is structured makes more sense. It allows them to compete better. And of course a 9 in Bemzema who is pichichi atm. Not a SS like Greizmann, Depay or some other fake striker. A proper 9.

Also, his choice of midfielders. He rarely uses Isco, which is interesting because Isco is a number 10. He rarely uses him. With Barca, we play number 10's all over the field. Messi himself is a 10. So what you have most times is chaos. Sometimes a circus. And then the midfield, no one can shoot. Pedri, Puig, Frenkie, Busi,Alena. None can shoot except Cou and Pjanic. They don't even try. So it makes life easier for the defending team. So to summarise, a 9, wingers, destroyer, midfielders that can pass, shoot etc and work without the ball. From what i see that's the approach Zidane seems to favour of course with variation at times. This is the direction Barca should be heading in.

 

[El Gato]

^
None of which means we have a system. We play several formations depending on who's here and who isn't. We play counter attack or lock people in their box depending mostly on what THEY allow us to do. Since the Decima RM is the pinnacle of successful reactivity where many players are suited to doing whatever the match demands. Or at least were, until about 2018 where slow decline of Marcelo, Modric and arguably several others has started, while other normally submissive utility players realised more is demanded from them (Asensio, Benzema, Isco) and try to contribute more with poor or sinusoidal results at best.

Brief resurgence now doesn't mean we've suddenly got some system. We don't. We don't move the same from game to game, we don't score regularly from well drilled moves, we don't create chances from similar situations, we don't win games vs poorer sides week to week, because we're dependent on presence of personnel with their subs often unable to play the same way as the first options.

Just because Barca are in a slightly worse spot doesn't mean you necessarily have a lot to envy. We may have assembled a team who are more compatible with one another better than Barca and have a manager who does well to keep everyone on side. But organisation and system are not here. Weren't here since 2017.

 

[JamDav1982]

^
None of which means we have a system. We play several formations depending on who's here and who isn't. We play counter attack or lock people in their box depending mostly on what THEY allow us to do. Since the Decima RM is the pinnacle of successful reactivity where many players are suited to doing whatever the match demands. Or at least were, until about 2018 where slow decline of Marcelo, Modric and arguably several others has started, while other normally submissive utility players realised more is demanded from them (Asensio, Benzema, Isco) and try to contribute more with poor or sinusoidal results at best.

Brief resurgence now doesn't mean we've suddenly got some system. We don't. We don't move the same from game to game, we don't score regularly from well drilled moves, we don't create chances from similar situations, we don't win games vs poorer sides week to week, because we're dependent on presence of personnel with their subs often unable to play the same way as the first options.

Just because Barca are in a slightly worse spot doesn't mean you necessarily have a lot to envy. We may have assembled a team who are more compatible with one another better than Barca and have a manager who does well to keep everyone on side. But organisation and system are not here. Weren't here since 2017.

Real do have a system as all clubs do but it is about as basic as it gets and that has worked for them and Zidane as had players to make it work.

One huge benefit Real have had with ageing players is that they were not the slower, leggy players Barca have had... but that change away from those players for Real is still to come while Barca have tried to make a lot of it happen in one season.

Clearly in better situation than Barca right now and would like to be proven wrong by them to do decent in CL as reflect well on La Liga but a lot of the changes needed to rebuild have not really had to be adrressed yet.

 

[El Gato]

Disagree. System implies regularity of approach, which is not something that characterises Zidane's Real at any point in his 2 tenures.
We used to just play to strengths of the available frontline. We still try to with far poorer results, because squad shaped by Perez (and Zidane, admittedly) forces wingers in and a sole striker in Benzema who is as up and down as it gets as the central outlet and the other inside forwards not being anywhere near the appropriate position without a marker to stop them when a cross goes in (and a lot of them go in).

Also most of the ageing players are as slow as Barca's. Modrić trackback is a liability just as Busquets is and has been exploited, and caused him to get moved to the bench most of last season, same with Marcelo. Benzema is as slow as Suarez with worse balance. Kroos is as leggy as Rakitić was when both playing poorly and is asked to do less with fitter Regui/Mendy. Speed is not something that stands out as better in our vets. The one difference is DM being younger, generally fitter, and Fede coming in to inject similar energy.