Lionel Messi - v7

[5ergio_Busquets]

Again, imagine if any random player took all of his penalties, free kicks and if he were allowed to take 5 shots per match (let's say Fati, Suarez, Coutinho, Vidal, Griezz) and if all teammates were looking for him all the time.

A lot of them would have similar numbers.
Suarez and Fati would have better numbers with all penalties and free kicks taken.

Add to that freedom in position and no defensive work, meaning he can save his energy and just wait until he gets the ball in the position he wants.

 

[IvanAtanasov]

Bottom line : He is a legend, but he had to go this summer.

 

[Rory]

I am not sure why are you counting penaldos as some achievement?

Rakitic would have scored an equal or higher number of goals from penaldos than Messi.

About Atletico 0:1, I said: year 2020.

I didn't whine about Messi in 2019, except about his away CL matches displays.

But since 2020, even his La liga form declined massively.

Scored on 4 out of last 22 La liga nights from an open play.

You can't blame the team or coaches.
Everyone is passing to him.
Teammates are neglecting other players in better positions.
He is neglecting teammates in better positions.
He can shoot whenever he wants.
Plus, La liga is weaker than ever.

And when you sum it all, he scored on 4 matches out of last 22 La liga matches in 2020.

Suarez scored on 6 different matches.
Fati with limited minutes on 6 different matches.

One more time: the whole team works for him.
His return of investment in 2020 is more or less not worth all the investment (all balls passed to him).

A high stakes penalty is certainly easier than an open play goal but it's not worth nothing.

You're being pointlessly pedantic with the whole 2020 thing. Like there's a huge difference between December 2019 (Atletico game) and 2020. As if the second it turns January 2020 Messi is suddenly shit?

You're also deciding to totally ignore assists like they're the easiest thing in the world to do.

 

[Rory]

If I was to make my ideal starting xi I wouldn't include Messi (shock horror). But with our current crop of players, our financial constraints, our terrible decision making in the transfer market and the quality of potential replacements he's worth counting on this season and there's no way we would have been better off without him the last couple of years.

 

[soul24rage]

His return of investment in 2020 is more or less not worth all the investment (all balls passed to him).

Whether if it's still worth the investment, we'll find out this season.
With Suarez gone, we have one more player who can help out in defense.

So far out of the 3 games, he had one decent game, one good game, one bad game

Consider the fact that the one bad game came after playing a captain's performance vs Celta with playing with 10 men for more than a half in a terrible playing condition.
It was no surprise that everyone except for Coutinho had a dip in the Sevilla match.

 

[BBZ8800]

Consider the fact that the one bad game came after playing a captain's performance vs Celta with playing with 10 men for more than a half in a terrible playing condition.
It was no surprise that everyone except for Coutinho had a dip in the Sevilla match.

You should also consider that Messi was dead tired by March from 2014 onwards.

Now he is 5-6 years older.

Now, add to this how he refuses to get rotated or benched.

The point: there is an extremely high chance that his legs will be gone in Suarez's, Raki's or Busi's way.
And that, if he'll refuse to rest, his performances in upcoming Months will be way way worse than a match against Sevilla.

Again, he is a human.
Who is physically and mentally drained.
And got old and declined.

But he and his die hard fans are refusing to accept that.

 

[soul24rage]

You should also consider that Messi was dead tired by March from 2014 onwards.

Now he is 5-6 years older.

Now, add to this how he refuses to get rotated or benched.

The point: there is an extremely high chance that his legs will be gone in Suarez's, Raki's or Busi's way.
And that, if he'll refuse to rest, his performances in upcoming Months will be way way worse than a match against Sevilla.

Again, he is a human.
Who is physically and mentally drained.
And got old and declined.

But he and his die hard fans are refusing to accept that.

It's obvious he declined and I agree that he should be rotated a lot more frequently.
Especially with World Cup Qualifiers in South America coming up.

If I were Koeman, I would seriously put Messi on the bench vs Getafe.

 

[Sterlingfan2000]

It's obvious he declined and I agree that he should be rotated a lot more frequently.
Especially with World Cup Qualifiers in South America coming up.

If I were Koeman, I would seriously put Messi on the bench vs Getafe.

Tbh why the hell he wants to go to the Premier league? The intensity is 5x higher compared to La Liga and they have like 2 cups more then in Spain.

 

[Rory]

I think all fans of Messi know he has declined and should be rested for games. As I said before I'd bench him for Getafe and our first ucl group stage game. No need for him to be involved. Maybe give Griezmann his supposed preferred position and let him develop some confidence. This is on the manager to do, not Messi

 

[Zebulun]

I am not sure why are you counting penaldos as some achievement?

Rakitic would have scored an equal or higher number of goals from penaldos than Messi.

About Atletico 0:1, I said: year 2020.

I didn't whine about Messi in 2019, except about his away CL matches displays.

But since 2020, even his La liga form declined massively.

Scored on 4 out of last 22 La liga nights from an open play.

You can't blame the team or coaches.
Everyone is passing to him.
Teammates are neglecting other players in better positions.
He is neglecting teammates in better positions.
He can shoot whenever he wants.
Plus, La liga is weaker than ever.

And when you sum it all, he scored on 4 matches out of last 22 La liga matches in 2020.

Suarez scored on 6 different matches.
Fati with limited minutes on 6 different matches.

One more time: the whole team works for him.
His return of investment in 2020 is more or less not worth all the investment (all balls passed to him).

instead of spouting nonsense you should actually watch games because clearly you dont. 1) this is early in the season, no team is at full strength at this stage of the season lol. 2) the right side of the team is completely fucking dead so there's no one to associate with messi there to generate plays, hence him dropping deep to create the pass to alba for the cutback for the sole coutinho goal. 3) the narrative that the team works for messi is bullshit, if that were the case, we'd be treble contenders every year. you can continue to point at empty stats all you like but you have to analyze within the greater context.

 

[snowy]

Again, imagine if any random player took all of his penalties, free kicks and if he were allowed to take 5 shots per match (let's say Fati, Suarez, Coutinho, Vidal, Griezz) and if all teammates were looking for him all the time.

A lot of them would have similar numbers.
Suarez and Fati would have better numbers with all penalties and free kicks taken.

You should also consider that Messi was dead tired by March from 2014 onwards.

Now he is 5-6 years older.

Now, add to this how he refuses to get rotated or benched.

And that, if he'll refuse to rest, his performances in upcoming Months will be way way worse than a match against Sevilla.

...

But he and his die hard fans are refusing to accept that.

Actually the best way to maximise peak freshness come end of season crunch time is to use max rotations. Even for young players, if not only to allow sufficient gametime and readiness for all players. Main reason we failed to 2-peat the treble under Lucho was whole team was completely exhausted due to overuse.

Running the same starting 11 all the time is an idiot-proof recipe for DISASTER.

Yes, Messi is like kid who always wants to play but if Coach can't assert his authority and set the boundaries, that's on him dude. If really desperate, just call Cesar Milan

btw, if team had the same energy as for Celta and Villareal, we'd have smashed a few vs Sevilla. Coach n staff should've known team was exhausted, except for Couti and Fati. This was a perfect opp to field the fresher players, including Astroboy Puig.

edit: with a properly rested team, based on Commando's positive style, we should get great results. With Messi possibly getting lots more pre-assists compared to previous seasons. Indicating an overall better balanced team. To execute it properly though, all players need to step up and take their shots.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Will there be any argentinia friendly matches for him ?

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

'Messi and Suarez will travel together with one privatjet to southamerica for their qualification matches' (@Footballeurope)

Suarez is back

 

[soul24rage]

Will there be any argentinia friendly matches for him ?

nope, Conmebol world cup qualifiers start on Thursday

 

[Mitchell1978]

Again, imagine if any random player took all of his penalties, free kicks and if he were allowed to take 5 shots per match (let's say Fati, Suarez, Coutinho, Vidal, Griezz) and if all teammates were looking for him all the time.

A lot of them would have similar numbers.
Suarez and Fati would have better numbers with all penalties and free kicks taken.

They wouldn't score does free kicks, nor would they have as many assists and probably not even as many goals from open play (at least Messi in the first half of last season).

You're taking hate to another level right now...