Lionel Messi - v7

[eaman]

Lol.
I didn't check Copa america's stats for some time.

So:
1. No World cup KO goals for Messi in his career
2. One Copa America goal in KO matches in the last 13 years
3. 1 CL ko away goal since 2015



No offense, opponents in a debate about Messi as Goat have plenty of facts against him, once when you step out of La Liga and Camp Nou

He has 4 cops america knockout goals in his career. 2 in 2007 and 2 in 2016. It is clear his role for Argentina is different to that of his barca role especially under pep. He has almost 50 assists for argentina which tells you he has to provide more because of the average midfield argentina has always had in his time so far

 

[Messi983]

And he would probably have double the assists if Higuain, Di Maria and other chokers would know how to score.

 

[Pedro]

Let's hope Leo scores vs. Getafe

@vilarrubi

@Hardy

@catalinutzr80

@bismp

 

[Vilarrubi]

Let's hope Leo scores vs. Getafe

@vilarrubi

@Hardy

@catalinutzr80

@bismp

Let’s hope.

 

[ItachiXXX]

If Messi's teammates just for one game carry him or atleast score a big goal. BBZ will not be here shiting on Messi 😆

 

[CatalinR10]

Let's hope Leo scores vs. Getafe

@vilarrubi

@Hardy

@catalinutzr80

@bismp

Let’s hope.

let's hope.

 

[Hardy]

he said estoy muerto (I'm dead) at the end of first half to De Paul

 

[KingLeo10]

Lol.
I didn't check Copa america's stats for some time.

So:
1. No World cup KO goals for Messi in his career
2. One Copa America goal in KO matches in the last 13 years
3. 1 CL ko away goal since 2015

No offense, opponents in a debate about Messi as Goat have plenty of facts against him, once when you step out of La Liga and Camp Nou

The point was that you were doubling down on a falsehood without checking the stats/facts.

It's hard to put faith in your football arguments when the numbers aren't even accurate?

With the broader argument about Messi's status in the game. I've said many times over the last couple of years that he's a GOAT but not THE GOAT. He set THE GOAT standards from 2008-2015 where he won 5 Ballon, 3 CL, 5 LL, and averaged ~55 goals a season those 7 seasons with dominant performances in CL. But his career since then has been a disappointment, not because he hasn't won another CL/Copa/WC. But because he hasn't delivered top performances in those tournaments outside of Liverpool 2019 or to a lesser degree Chelsea 2017 (who were good but not great). Before his fanboys come at me, I realize Barcelona/Argentina has been declining in this time period, but THE GOAT has to deliver a top performance at least 50% of the important matches, where it's been maybe 10-25% for Messi in these 5 years.

Right now he's in the mix with Maradona, Pele, CR7, Cruyff etc. All of them have their pros and cons and all have very accomplished careers but not a near flawless one.

I will say that IF he can pull a CL out of nowhere (very unlikely), we can again give him serious consideration for THE GOAT because he'd have done it with an otherwise average/decent Barca squad (compared to MSN or Xaviesta at least). The other guys like Pele, Cruyff, CR7 won their big trophies when they had dominant teams. Same with Messi. Maradona doesn't have many big trophies but he won his biggest without a dominant team and he's worshipped for this feat. So, Messi lifting this Barca to a CL would put him back on top IMO. Of course, CR7 can go top if he manages to take this average Juve to a CL as well.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

The point was that you were doubling down on a falsehood without checking the stats/facts.

It's hard to put faith in your football arguments when the numbers aren't even accurate?

With the broader argument about Messi's status in the game. I've said many times over the last couple of years that he's a GOAT but not THE GOAT. He set THE GOAT standards from 2008-2015 where he won 5 Ballon, 3 CL, 5 LL, and averaged ~55 goals a season those 7 seasons with dominant performances in CL. But his career since then has been a disappointment, not because he hasn't won another CL/Copa/WC. But because he hasn't delivered top performances in those tournaments outside of Liverpool 2019 or to a lesser degree Chelsea 2017 (who were good but not great). Before his fanboys come at me, I realize Barcelona/Argentina has been declining in this time period, but THE GOAT has to deliver a top performance at least 50% of the important matches, where it's been maybe 10-25% for Messi in these 5 years.

Right now he's in the mix with Maradona, Pele, CR7, Cruyff etc. All of them have their pros and cons and all have very accomplished careers but not a near flawless one.

I will say that IF he can pull a CL out of nowhere (very unlikely), we can again give him serious consideration for THE GOAT because he'd have done it with an otherwise average/decent Barca squad (compared to MSN or Xaviesta at least). The other guys like Pele, Cruyff, CR7 won their big trophies when they had dominant teams. Same with Messi. Maradona doesn't have many big trophies but he won his biggest without a dominant team and he's worshipped for this feat. So, Messi lifting this Barca to a CL would put him back on top IMO. Of course, CR7 can go top if he manages to take this average Juve to a CL as well.

Good post and I agree. It's been quite miserable five years for Messi fans. Mostly big defeats to remember by.

 

[CatalinR10]

why do they allow teams to play such high anyways ?

 

[soul24rage]

The point was that you were doubling down on a falsehood without checking the stats/facts.

It's hard to put faith in your football arguments when the numbers aren't even accurate?

With the broader argument about Messi's status in the game. I've said many times over the last couple of years that he's a GOAT but not THE GOAT. He set THE GOAT standards from 2008-2015 where he won 5 Ballon, 3 CL, 5 LL, and averaged ~55 goals a season those 7 seasons with dominant performances in CL. But his career since then has been a disappointment, not because he hasn't won another CL/Copa/WC. But because he hasn't delivered top performances in those tournaments outside of Liverpool 2019 or to a lesser degree Chelsea 2017 (who were good but not great). Before his fanboys come at me, I realize Barcelona/Argentina has been declining in this time period, but THE GOAT has to deliver a top performance at least 50% of the important matches, where it's been maybe 10-25% for Messi in these 5 years.

Right now he's in the mix with Maradona, Pele, CR7, Cruyff etc. All of them have their pros and cons and all have very accomplished careers but not a near flawless one.

I will say that IF he can pull a CL out of nowhere (very unlikely), we can again give him serious consideration for THE GOAT because he'd have done it with an otherwise average/decent Barca squad (compared to MSN or Xaviesta at least). The other guys like Pele, Cruyff, CR7 won their big trophies when they had dominant teams. Same with Messi. Maradona doesn't have many big trophies but he won his biggest without a dominant team and he's worshipped for this feat. So, Messi lifting this Barca to a CL would put him back on top IMO. Of course, CR7 can go top if he manages to take this average Juve to a CL as well.

+1

 

[BBZ8800]

The point was that you were doubling down on a falsehood without checking the stats/facts.

It's hard to put faith in your football arguments when the numbers aren't even accurate?

I never post wrong numbers on purpose.

About this post, I was laying in my bed and had to manually google 1 by 1 world cup, CLs to check his numbers in KO matches.

About World cup, I remember that he has never scored.
About Copa, I remember that his numbers were slo shocking, but I forgot whether they were 0, or as it turned out, 1 goal from an open play in 13 years.

Further, realistically, his only Goat numbers are CLs from Pep's era when we had Xavi, Iniesta, Alves.
And ramdom trashings and statpading in 6:0 victories over Getafes, Levantes and similar.

If you add the fact that numbers from footballers today are increased due to a huge differences in wealth, then 100s of La liga hoals don't look THAT impressive, Goat-discussion wise.

I don't know who is the GOAT, but both Messi, Maradona, Pele and even CR7 have reasons to fight for that spot.
And all of them have flaws.

If Messi would have stopped playing in 2012 or 5015, he would have been an indisputable Goat.
But in the last few years, zero World cup major goals, zero Copa America goals, zero zero zero for years on a CL away matches, well it ruined a picture of alien Messi from the early years.

Btw, some people here think that I hate Messi, lol.
Rivaldo, Ronnie, Etoo, Xavi and Messi are my sll time favorite Barca's players.
And Messi is the greatest of all of them.

I just don't like blind faith fans and posts.

I can both love Messi for everything what he fid and say that he was meh for NT team, in.away CL matches or that he plays like a granny for the last few Months.

 

[eaman]

I never post wrong numbers on purpose.

About this post, I was laying in my bed and had to manually google 1 by 1 world cup, CLs to check his numbers in KO matches.

About World cup, I remember that he has never scored.
About Copa, I remember that his numbers were slo shocking, but I forgot whether they were 0, or as it turned out, 1 goal from an open play in 13 years.

Further, realistically, his only Goat numbers are CLs from Pep's era when we had Xavi, Iniesta, Alves.
And ramdom trashings and statpading in 6:0 victories over Getafes, Levantes and similar.

If you add the fact that numbers from footballers today are increased due to a huge differences in wealth, then 100s of La liga hoals don't look THAT impressive, Goat-discussion wise.

I don't know who is the GOAT, but both Messi, Maradona, Pele and even CR7 have reasons to fight for that spot.
And all of them have flaws.

If Messi would have stopped playing in 2012 or 5015, he would have been an indisputable Goat.
But in the last few years, zero World cup major goals, zero Copa America goals, zero zero zero for years on a CL away matches, well it ruined a picture of alien Messi from the early years.

Btw, some people here think that I hate Messi, lol.
Rivaldo, Ronnie, Etoo, Xavi and Messi are my sll time favorite Barca's players.
And Messi is the greatest of all of them.

I just don't like blind faith fans and posts.

I can both love Messi for everything what he fid and say that he was meh for NT team, in.away CL matches or that he plays like a granny for the last few Months.

Again 3 goals from open play and one freekick in the copa knockouts.Make it stick this time

 

[Mitchell1978]

Again 3 goals from open play and one freekick in the copa knockouts.Make it stick this time

And about 10 or so assists, off course all that doesn't suit his agenda so he won't remember/ignore it/or come up with something else.

 

[Judoman]

If Messi would have stopped playing in 2012 or 5015, he would have been an indisputable Goat.
But in the last few years, zero World cup major goals, zero Copa America goals, zero zero zero for years on a CL away matches, well it ruined a picture of alien Messi from the early years.

Yeah that's called a recency bias and it's quite common in these days. Also, the guy has 3 mayor finals with his NT+olympic gold but yeah, that's meh. Obviously he was supposed to win everything by himself.