serghei
Senior Member
People are posting shit about Suarez all the time.
How he has scored a low amount of goals in a CL.
Or even better, how he can't score away from home.
But let's do the same about Messi.
I'll add a new additional stat: Messi's goals AWAY FROM Camp Nou and when a pressure is ON (Ko matches), since it is a known thing that Messi has issues with matches away from home and when things go bad.
So, what we can see, this can't be blamed on Valverde for example. Or on Rakitic. (As if: Messi can't score due to EV and his shitty tactics. Or Messi can't score because our midfield with Rakitic can't create anything).
The thing is, if we want to dig a little deeper at Messi's carrer and how he scores, when he scores, and when he goes MIA and sulking, there is a clear pattern:
2014:
City 2:0, 1 goal (pen)
Atletico 0:1, --
2015:
City 2:1, --
Psg 3:1, --
Bayern 2:3, --
Final: Juve 3:2, --
2016:
Arsenal 2:0, 2 goals (1 pen)
Atletico 0:2, --
2017:
Psg 0:4, --
Juve 0:3, --
2018:
Chelsea 1:1, 1 goal
Roma 0:3, --
2019:
Lyon 0:0, --
Man. Utd 1:0, --
Liverpool 0:4, --
So, in the last 15 KO matches AWAY from Camp Nou, he managed to score 4 goals. But 2 of them were penaldos.
So, he was able to GET into a chance on his own and actually score a goal from an open play ONLY in 2 matches: vs Chelsea 1:1 in 2018 and Arsenal 2:0 2016.
And even then, against Chelsea, that goal was a gifted goal, a mistake and a counter around their box.
A goal against Arsenal was another counter, when he was 1 vs 1 keeper in the box.
** Also, I would add one thing:
Messi is perfect in some areas, but very flawed in other areas.
And then, against weaker opponents, he is still too good for them, that he is able to dominate inspite of his flaws.
But when he plays in a team which is not perfect, or when he plays against very good opponents, and/or when he plays AWAY from Camp Nou in any KO Matches=then he is usually EASY to stop/neutralize by good teams and he is usually invisible, walking and sulking. And his teams (Barca and Argentina) are usually always losing in the same manner.
So, what is my point?
1. well, Messi is kinda slowish in the last 5 years.
He is short, and that means that he can't win aerial battles like CR7 and we can't play crosses for him.
Since he is slowish, that means that we can't play counters except in rare cases where he is totally unmarked like against Arsenal.
That means that with a current Messi, aged around 30, you can play only in one way: a granny slow, sterile, possession game around the box, with 100s passes aimed at him and hoping that he will finally dribble past 4 players and produce magic.
And yet, as seen in the last 5-6 years in a CL: Atletico 1:0, Atletico 2:0, Psg 4:0, Juve 3:0, Roma 3:0, Liverpool 4:0=that isn't happening.
Messi is still the best and lethal when he gets the ball around the box and when he can shoot or has only 1 defender on his back.
But those kind of situations are happening ONLY in La Liga against Mickey Mouse teams who can't cope with Messi.
Or in a CL matches at Camp Nou, where all the opponents are frightened by 100 000 fans and by a crazy atmosphere.
Also, Messi is relaxed and confident at Camp Nou and plays to his best.
Yet, when we play in a CL KO matches away from home: Messi is not confident. If we concede a goal, he is losing his head. He is walking, sulking, without confidence.
Then when you mix Messi without confidence with his physical attributes where he is slow, short, not pressing, not moving off the ball=you get the same old story all the time. We can't do shit, he is neutralized easily, a team doesn't know what else to do than to pass to Messi and we lose 3:0 more or less to any decent team. Since 2014'.
Should I even dare to mention that Messi had exactly the same pattern for 15 years in an NT team, where he:
1. is scoring for fun in qualifying matches (when there is no SUDDEN DEATH pressure)
2. and how he is scoring in a group stage, where again: the opponents are weaker and there is no SUDDEN DEATH
But once when NT team KO matches starts, iirc: Messi has ZERO Goals in his career in all KO matches on World cups and Copa America.
People will again offer an alibi=but Argentina is shit.
But still, if he is STILL such an advantage in big matches, he should be able to create magic on his own here and there, even with average teammates.
So, what do we have in the last 5-6 years with Messi in KO matches?
1. 15 away KO matches with Barca, scored goals on 2 nights. Wasn't able to score on 13 nights.
2. in an NT team, played around 10-ish KO matches in that time. Zero goals.
That means that in the last 5-6-7 years, he had 25 important KO matches AWAY from home, and he was able to score 2 goals from an open play (and even then, one of those goals was a gift from Chelsea).
Now, when the best player in the world scores 1 true goal in 25 KO matches, you need to raise some questions.
(Please guys, don't offer another fanboy alibi: football is more than goals or stats, lol. Since he isn't doing too much in other areas also on away matches, if you consider his GOAT status.)
My theory is, as explained above, that he is bad in away KO matches due to a mix of:
1. he lost motivation in the last few years, he is a father and a family man
2. he is mentally fragile and he loses it easily on away matches in a CL when things start to go wrong
3. he is slowish, short and doesn't move off the ball=which makes him easy to stop and mark. (Unlike hated CR7 who can still get into chances both after possession and after crosses with his aerial strength due to: better motivation, more pace, more stamina, being tall and moving better off the ball to get into chances).
4. of course, Barca isn't perfect anymore, a coach is bad, Argentina is meh... but still, his physical skills and his lack of movement/motivation are also a huge part of a reason for their failures.
Especially since those teams are built around Messi, and those teams don't know how to play without Messi.
And then when Atletico, Juve or Liverpool mark and neutralize Messi, we are dead.
So, some used an answer: but we are even more shit without him.
Well, yes.
I have already wrote:
1. without Messi, we will be 4th in La Liga
2. with Messi, we will be top 2, but we probably won't win a CL as long as he is a key man who plays in a centre, marked by 3-4 players in the middle and as long as he won't move off the ball. And since he is 32, that ship has sailed. He won't change his game.
3. our game could reach a new level of teamplay and Total football (like Ajax) only when we will turn the page and start from zero in post Messi era.
** Btw, I did say a year ago that Messi is both a huge gift and a burden for this team.
A lot of users laughed at me and asked: Bbz, do you know a meaning of a word "burden"?
Well, yes. I do.
Messi is a burden in terms that we will never have a teamplay like Ajax or Liverpool as long as he is here, since all the balls need to be passed to him.
And since he doesn't move and is neutralized easily.
So, our current state is: we suck without Messi.
And we can't win a CL with a current old Messi as a key man.
** But as we see currently, people are already pointing fingers, calling some of us: not real Barca's fans, ungrateful, CR7 lovers etc.
On the other hand, why not accept the obvious?
1. Messi was the best player ever, but even in his prime: he had some flaws. But then his good sides were stronger than today, plus he was surrounded by Xavi-Iniesta and coached by Pep.
2. without Xavi-Iniesta and Pep, he lost a lot.
Also, in the last few years, he aged like everyone, and his bad sides are bigger than 10 years ago, and his good side is way less alien-ish than 5-10 years ago.
I mean, should we pretend until the age 38 that Messi is perfect, that he is by far the best, and that everyone else are always a reason for our defeats.
EV is guilty.
Raki has his share of blame.
Busi also.
Suarez also.
Alba also.
Defense also.
Mats also.
Messi also.
This Messi's thread is another example why I don't like simple solutions and scapegoating, when people said:
Remove Raki and we will fly again, lol.
If you remove Raki, we will still have Busi, who is bad.
If you remove Raki, you will still have Suarez, who is bad.
If you remove Raki, Busi and Suarez, you will still have an old Messi who doesn't move off the ball.
If you remove Raki, Busi, Suarez, Messi, then Dembele will still be dumb.
If you remove even Dembele, Pique will still be old and prone to errors and Lenglet will be average.
If you remove EV, Raki, Busi, Suarez, Messi, Dembele, Pique, Lenglet, then Semedo will still be bad in the attacking third and Alba will be a liability in defense in CL matches.
If you remove Semedo and Alba... well, then you removed almost the whole team and then we will have 100s of new similar problems with new guys.
In short: we have 100s of problems on 100s of levels.
Messi is ALSO one of them.
Of course, EV, Raki and Suarez are bigger problems, but still, we won't get too far after 2020 with Messi as a key player.
He will be 33, deal with it, guys.
Another slow attacker. Similar to Messi.
Griezmann will be easily neutralized by any top team since he is also slow, he is meh in the air, and he can't dribble at all.
So, Messi-Griezz attack against Liverpool and similar teams?
I guess that we will lose 0:5 this time with even worse displays...
Good post regarding Messi's much reduced influence away from home in big ties in CL in the last half a decade. What applies to Suarez applies to Messi as well away. Slow, lazy players who don't bring much offensively anymore at this level, despite their genius and undeniable talent.
The reality is that big teams know how to handle Messi and Suarez very well when they are off Camp Nou. They handle their quality and reduce their offensive contributions by a lot, then speculate their poor work rate off the ball.
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Yeah, sure.
