Lionel Messi - v7

[Potroh]

From GOAT to SCAPEGOAT

That's good! Rofl...

 

[jamrock]

A midfielder that's starts wide right

And our manager does see that this completely unbalances our team & tries to come up with something that mitigates that as much as possible

 

[serghei]

"I feel like a midfielder now, as someone who builds attacks and creates rather than scoring goals."

yikes

Yea, a midfielder who barely moves off the ball. This guy needs some manager with balls to tell him what to do. If Xavi was a 10/10 midfielder, Messi is a 6/10. Xavi ranked 10/10 at off the ball movement. Messi is a 3/10 probably.

He doesn't understand what being a midfielder is about really.

We desperately need a manager who tells Messi where to play and what to do, and be prepared to fight with him if he doesn't listen, up to benching him if nothing works.

Similar to how Pep dealt with Aguero at City.

 

[Hardy]

that statement confirms what I've always thought, people think Messi drops on the pitch because of poor midfield, nothing more delusional.

 

[serghei]

that statement confirms what I've always thought, people think Messi drops on the pitch because of poor midfield, nothing more delusional.

He drops in midfield, because he wants to and the manager is too much of a wimp to forbid him that. Or at least set the circumstances when he can drop, and the circumstances when he has to stay up.

It's pretty obvious that the veterans like and support Valverde because they can do what they want. He lets them do what they want and tries to somehow make it work by sacrificing the other players and making them work twice as hard to make up for their laziness. It's pretty clear at this point.

 

[KingLeo10]

Best finisher on planet Earth or at least the most efficient .... prefers to drop in midfield and be predictably blocked.

This is the kind of shit housery by him and Ney Ney that cost us a back to back treble in 15/16. Both are deluded.

 

[Lapi]

He doesn't understand what being a midfielder is about really.

I think he does.
"Midfielder" is a very broad term nowadays and there are at least 10-12 varieties of midfielders.

Originally, before the 70's the midfielder was called: half-back, specially that most teams played 3-2-5 rarely 4-2-4.
If you say "half-back" it means a very different thing nowadays, but that's the original midfielder.

Combining-midfielder, connecting-midfielder, aggregative-midfielder, attacking-midfielder, tieing-midfielder, bounding-midfielder, linking-midfielder, box-to-box-midfielder, actually all these terms are used.
I have no doubt that Messi meant creating- or creative-midfielder in this context, which is actually an attacker, just there is no common English word for that, U can use whatever you feel fit.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Messi best attributes is moving between the lines (midfield and defense) and that is what he needs to do.
Even if he is more interested in playing in the middle behind a "9" he needs to be a 2nd striker then and put trust in midfield to do their jobs.

 

[serghei]

I think he does.
"Midfielder" is a very broad term nowadays and there are at least 10-12 varieties of midfielders.

Originally, before the 70's the midfielder was called: half-back, specially that most teams played 3-2-5 rarely 4-2-4.
If you say "half-back" it means a very different thing nowadays, but that's the original midfielder.

Combining-midfielder, connecting-midfielder, aggregative-midfielder, attacking-midfielder, tieing-midfielder, bounding-midfielder, linking-midfielder, box-to-box-midfielder, actually all these terms are used.
I have no doubt that Messi meant creating- or creative-midfielder in this context, which is actually an attacker, just there is no common English word for that, U can use whatever you feel fit.

Each and everyone of those types needs to have a good enough off the ball movement to be able to receive between the lines. He doesn't. At this age and with his current game, he can play as a False 9 or as a winger. Those are his only options.

You say creating midfielder. To create something with the ball, you need to put in the required work to gain access on the ball first. The type of player Messi probably sees himself is an old version of the no10 from the long gone days when football was played at very slow place. The type of player used to wait for the ball to drop at his feet and pull of bits and magic with his talent. Sorry to break this down to you man, but this works against the Levantes and Granadas. Football has developed in such a way that you cannot play in midfield right now and not run off the ball.

Take a look at Xavi and Iniesta. We're talking about players who in big games put in 11 km per game. Constantly moving to receive the ball and impact the game.

 

[Potroh]

The type of player Messi probably sees himself is an old version of the no10 from the long gone days when football was played at very slow place.

Take a look at Xavi and Iniesta. We're talking about players who in big games put in 11 km per game. Constantly moving to receive the ball and impact the game.

Are you sure it worth it to question the semantics of Messi's interview?
We all know what he meant, he wants to play more as a creator, we have been seeing that for quite some time by now. It's nothing new, he does that and still he could make yet another golden-shoe for last season.

He has never moved too much without the ball and always ran less than others.
Perhaps his physique is chargeable only this much.

Yet he is is the best on the planet.
Yes, midfielder is not the right term on what he wanted to say, but neither is right to compare him to "real" midfielders like Iniesta or Xavi, just because he used a controversial expression.

People judge him according to the Prague game, which is not fair. He had no preseason, just came back from injury, he's obviously not on top physically, but that gives no reason for stupid generalizations, as if, from now on, it would be like that forever.

 

[Havesaks]

Needs to stay more on his wing, put more effort in it and let other players incl midfield do their job.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Messi says something in an interview and some people predictably freak out.

He hasn't said anything groundbreaking, he has said many times over the last couple of years that he sees himself more as a creator now (even though he's the best finisher in world football and has been usually been the best goalscorer).

as for his position, imo his best position right now is behind a 9 in a 4-2-3-1, preferably a new quality 9 and not declining Suarez

 

[te amo barca]

Messi says something in an interview and some people predictably freak out.

He hasn't said anything groundbreaking, he has said many times over the last couple of years that he sees himself more as a creator now (even though he's the best finisher in world football and has been usually been the best goalscorer).

as for his position, imo his best position right now is behind a 9 in a 4-2-3-1, preferably a new quality 9 and not declining Suarez

Good luck having a two-man midfield essentially. This Messi behind Suarez shtick works only if we play 4-4-2 like in 17/18.

A 4-2-3-1 with Messi as the CAM is a 4-4-2 by default anyway because he is the most advanced player in the defensive stage and nonexistent without the ball in the attacking stage in order to be considered a real midfielder as well. Sure, he will drop deep, but that only thwarts our attacking options because we would have one player less in the final third. Which means that the two wide midfielders have to do the heavy lifting of defending and moving off the ball. Griezmann and Dembele are both unfit for this, to use Fati in this way is to kill his talent too. This 4-2-3-1 would be good enough to dismantle most La Liga sides at Camp Nou, most probably, but nothing besides that.

Paulinho/Van de Beek type of midfielder works well with Messi because they know when to attack the space that Messi leaves when he drops deep. He (Leo) could potentially assume Tadic's role of a false 9 in the current Ajax side. But to have him, a real striker and also two wingers on the pitch at the same time is a defensive suicide. Would not work that well in attack either.

 

[soul24rage]

Good luck having a two-man midfield essentially. This Messi behind Suarez shtick works only if we play 4-4-2 like in 17/18.

A 4-2-3-1 with Messi as the CAM is a 4-4-2 by default anyway because he is the most advanced player in the defensive stage and nonexistent without the ball in the attacking stage in order to be considered a real midfielder as well. Sure, he will drop deep, but that only thwarts our attacking options because we would have one player less in the final third. Which means that the two wide midfielders have to do the heavy lifting of defending and moving off the ball. Griezmann and Dembele are both unfit for this, to use Fati in this way is to kill his talent too. This 4-2-3-1 would be good enough to dismantle most La Liga sides at Camp Nou, most probably, but nothing besides that.

Paulinho/Van de Beek type of midfielder works well with Messi because they know when to attack the space that Messi leaves when he drops deep. He (Leo) could potentially assume Tadic's role of a false 9 in the current Ajax side. But to have him, a real striker and also two wingers on the pitch at the same time is a defensive suicide. Would not work that well in attack either.

I would love to have someone like Kai Havertz. I think he would work well as the third midfielder with his ability to attack the space.

If we play Messi as the false 9 with a midfield of DJ, Arthur and Havertz (and of course with two wingers), I think that would solve a lot of problems.

I think for this current squad, maybe we could try Vidal as that third midfielder with Messi as a false 9, but there's no way that is happening.

 

[bismp]

People hating on Messi....

Even putting aside everything he has done for the club the past 15 years,just last year the guy CARRIED the corpse of our team to the CL semis,scored 50 goals(which is unheard of for great strikers of the past like R9 and Henry) and almost singlehandedly WON us another La Liga.

Yes,he is not moving off ball,yes he is usually not pressing etc.BUT a good manager and a good sporting direction would ensure that the team would be properly built around Leo’s abilities and weaknesses,instead of relying solely on him.

Even if Leo wants to drop back and supposedly “disrupt” the flow of our game,even then I firmly believe that we could win the CL.If you bench Busi and bring in a capable midfielder and if you bench Suarez and play Messi as a False 9 along 2 wingers,this team can be successful.

Even with the current team and the current SHIT manager,the team almost reached the CL final(which we would probably win).Anyone claiming that Leo is responsible for year after year of humiliations,then he is clearly deluded.When you lose 3-0 or 4-0,something is clearly very wrong with the whole team.