Lionel Messi - v7

[Birdy]

Disclaimer:
I forgot that I am in a MessiFanboy forum more than a Barcelona forum.
I am just reminding again the fanboys here that I am not a fanboy.
No need to label 'contrarian' someone who is not joining your emotional knee-jerk parade

Ballon d'or is based on the 2021 calendar year.

Nominally maybe,
but implicitly also on the 2020 calendar year,
it's the first time that both seasons are considered to reach a decision.

And given both seasons I don't think Messi should get another one.

Messi deserves it, no other player was better in 2021.

I think you are mistaking individual performance for individual talent/capacity
If the criterion is the latter Messi should win it every year, and should have won it every year since 2008.
But the criterion is or should be the former.

To understand how flawed this logic is, same could be said about other 'best players of their era' in the past
What about Ronaldinho?
Ronaldinho was undeniably the most talented footballer before Messi.
Should he have won it every year before Messi appeared?
Even when he was fat and partying, just because he was better at kicking the ball than anybody else? Hell no

19/20 has nothing to do with it, though. Breaking Muller's record is nice, but Messi had a good season individually and was by far the best player of an international cup he also won. Think it's a clear case unless he has a stinker at the beginning of the season.

Good season is questionable.
If you look at calendar 2020, Messi had a poor 2020. After Valverde was dismissed his finishing deteriorated and from Aug to Dec 2020 we was ghostwalking on the pitch. calendar 2021 (until now), he rediscovered part of his former self, but nothing like his 2019 self (last time he won Ballon D Or)

Copa America is 7 games. I didn't watch it to know how good Messi was, but it's always ridiculous IMO to base an individual award on 7 or 8 games, instead of 50-60 games the whole season.


PS: Of course, problem is that Ballon D'Or has become an industry of diplomacy, and awards are based less on impartial judgment of the performance on all players, but on exercises of diplomacy.
Why is Ronaldo even in the candidates for 2021? What did he do in 2021 or even in 2020 to deserve to be there? Nothing.
He is just Ronaldo and "has" to be there.
Same thinking is employed for Messi, despite him doing much more than Rolando

 

[Devils]

Won the ballon d'or over the weekend.

Stunning.

 

[Rory]

Birdy it's not so much Messi has been at a phenomenal level it's that other players haven't been. Messi a domestic trophy for barca and then copa america too. Voted best player at copa, highest goals and highest assists. On top of that highest scorer in la liga and assist provider. It's a completely fair shout to say he deserves it when the next favourites are:

- Kane: good season with spurs but won nothing.
- Lewandowski: Lots of goals to win the league, out of ucl early (not his fault) and Euros.
- Kante: Had about 5 very good games all season and won UCL.

No one else really comes into the conversation. Out of those 4, Messi clearly has the edge in terms of accomplishments. He also gets a boost because he's Messi, that's just how it's going to be for him and Ronaldo until they retire.

 

[soul24rage]

Nominally maybe,
but implicitly also on the 2020 calendar year,
it's the first time that both seasons are considered to reach a decision.

And given both seasons I don't think Messi should get another one.

Where did you get this?

 

[TheStig]

He made it up.

 

[Joan]

He made it up.

 

[Joan]

Nominally maybe,
but implicitly also on the 2020 calendar year,
it's the first time that both seasons are considered to reach a decision.

And given both seasons I don't think Messi should get another one.

Already asked, but where did you get the bold from? Ballon d'Ors are given for calendar years and there's no point talking about some other awards Messi might not deserve. There's no point because they don't exist. If there was an award for both seasons, Lewa would be my pick too. But sadly for the Pole, there isn't.

Good season is questionable.
If you look at calendar 2020, Messi had a poor 2020. After Valverde was dismissed his finishing deteriorated and from Aug to Dec 2020 we was ghostwalking on the pitch. calendar 2021 (until now), he rediscovered part of his former self, but nothing like his 2019 self (last time he won Ballon D Or)

Copa America is 7 games. I didn't watch it to know how good Messi was, but it's always ridiculous IMO to base an individual award on 7 or 8 games, instead of 50-60 games the whole season.

It's not questionable if we're talking about Ballon d'Or. Because then it refers to the second half of the season or the first half of 2021. International competitions taking place this year are the second hugely influential factor. With no obvious stand-out players in the Euros and Donnarumma being the man of the tournament, Copa will have some more weight. 7 games or not. It's not like there are many more meaningful matches in the CL, yet it usually carries the most points.

To sum it up: Messi had a revival at the beginning of this calendar year which is backed by stats. Believe he's even in the lead. Was he as good as before? No, but he didn't need to. He's not competing with himself. He also won his first international trophy, was the best and most influential player at the Copa. All it takes is a solid start of the season and there's no one close to him this year.

 

[Hardy]

that wouldn't make any sense, at that point just give the ballon d'or to lewa for last season, better later than never

 

[vegitot]

that wouldn't make any sense, at that point just give the ballon d'or to lewa for last season, better later than never

Then let's give it to Iniesta, he is still active. France Football apologized him for not giving him these award, better latet than never.

 

[KingLeo10]

Birdy is probably on Bayern Munich's payroll at this point

 

[Hardy]

Then let's give it to Iniesta, he is still active. France Football apologized him for not giving him these award, better latet than never.

would mean one less for messi though

 

[vegitot]

Disclaimer:
I forgot that I am in a MessiFanboy forum more than a Barcelona forum.
I am just reminding again the fanboys here that I am not a fanboy.
No need to label 'contrarian' someone who is not joining your emotional knee-jerk parade



Nominally maybe,
but implicitly also on the 2020 calendar year,
it's the first time that both seasons are considered to reach a decision.

And given both seasons I don't think Messi should get another one.



I think you are mistaking individual performance for individual talent/capacity
If the criterion is the latter Messi should win it every year, and should have won it every year since 2008.
But the criterion is or should be the former.

To understand how flawed this logic is, same could be said about other 'best players of their era' in the past
What about Ronaldinho?
Ronaldinho was undeniably the most talented footballer before Messi.
Should he have won it every year before Messi appeared?
Even when he was fat and partying, just because he was better at kicking the ball than anybody else? Hell no



Good season is questionable.
If you look at calendar 2020, Messi had a poor 2020. After Valverde was dismissed his finishing deteriorated and from Aug to Dec 2020 we was ghostwalking on the pitch. calendar 2021 (until now), he rediscovered part of his former self, but nothing like his 2019 self (last time he won Ballon D Or)

Copa America is 7 games. I didn't watch it to know how good Messi was, but it's always ridiculous IMO to base an individual award on 7 or 8 games, instead of 50-60 games the whole season.


PS: Of course, problem is that Ballon D'Or has become an industry of diplomacy, and awards are based less on impartial judgment of the performance on all players, but on exercises of diplomacy.
Why is Ronaldo even in the candidates for 2021? What did he do in 2021 or even in 2020 to deserve to be there? Nothing.
He is just Ronaldo and "has" to be there.
Same thinking is employed for Messi, despite him doing much more than Rolando

Dembele's fanboy. Dembele of all people lol.

Messi has been brilliant through out 2021 and Copa America's triumph is his peak this year. No one close to that. Only he is incredibly terrible during later or doesn't play at all then others will win. If he still remains good form, he will win it.

I love Dinho but his post 2007 form is not even close to half of current Messi.

And in the year of World Cup/Euro/Copa, these event weight more. Several players in the past won individual awards just thanks to these events. Cannavaro 2006, Zidane 1998, Ronaldo 2002, Modric 2018...

 

[vegitot]

would mean one less for messi though

Wait till Messi collects 7 then give it to Iniesta

 

[El Gato]

It's a completely fair shout to say he deserves it when the next favourites are:

- Kane: good season with spurs but won nothing.
- Lewandowski: Lots of goals to win the league, out of ucl early (not his fault) and Euros.
- Kante: Had about 5 very good games all season and won UCL.

No one else really comes into the conversation.

De Bruyne probably up there too if we're dismissing other candidates based on teammates' failures. He's been very good in Euros despite playing injured.

 

[vegitot]

De Bruyne probably up there too if we're dismissing other candidates based on teammates' failures. He's been very good in Euros despite playing injured.

He is just unlucky. Injuried both in UCL final and Euro.