Lionel Messi - v7

[Barcilliant]

The way to get the best out of him is number nine. Get two quick, hard working wingers and full backs on the flanks. People underestimate the amount of work guys like Alves, Rakitic, Xavi and Iniesta did to make Messi great. Rakitic when he was actually good used to cover for Messi alot ditto Alves on that right side.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Can see by how Klopp sets up team and principles he plays by that Messi doesnt fit.

Top coaches want to implement their ideas far more than some challenge to see if what they can get out of Messi.

Messi as a younger player is a different argument but on the here and now there is not place for a 33 yr old Messi in a Klopp team.

Unless we ask Klopp and any other elite coach if he wants Messi on a free transfer we'll never get answers so let's just leave it at that

I mean of course he doesn't fit the system at all, but it's Lionel Messi so i would never say there is no way this or that coach wouldn't try to work around it.

 

[JamDav1982]

Easy to talk about fantasy scenarios. They might integrate him or not. Thing is they won't ever have the chance to coach a player like him again.
Most of the anti Messi hate is about fake news, fantasy scenarios and conspiracy.

Messi is best ever and I dont think Barca should get rid of him but him fitting into team and future of side has to be considered.

But this idea just point to the numbers to say Messi has not also been part of the problem in some aspects is wrong.

 

[JamDav1982]

Unless we ask Klopp and any other elite coach if he wants Messi on a free transfer we'll never get answers so let's just leave it at that

I mean of course he doesn't fit the system at all, but it's Lionel Messi so i wouldn't never say there is no way this or that coach would try to work around it.

It is opinions and evidence based on how their teams play.

Likes of Pep and Klopp and those clubs could make a play for him potentially but they wont in my opinion.

Same as they wont wont Ronaldo and his numbers either.

 

[serghei]

There are two types of roles for attackers in pressing situations.

1) Blocking a pass with proper positioning without press.

2) Blocking a pass with proper position + press.


So, when faster players will do 2), Messi has to do 1).

By doing 1), Messi or Suarez make sure the players who do 2) won't have to do it time and time again and getting themselves exhausted. Because 2) is more effort consuming.

Like in the picture with Klopp's press scheme. Salah and Mane make 2), and Firmino uses 1) to take away press-escape passing options (both pass to Otamendi and both eventual cutback from Fernandinho to Otamendi while pressing Fernandinho if he receives the ball - so called famous Klopp pressing traps, where one player is allowed to receive only to be immediately cornered and stripped of the ball in a dangerous position). If Firmino is sleeping or walking, or whatever, Salah and Mane press moves are non effective. And then the ball recycles again, and poor Salah and Mane will have to redo the press move every time the ball is played wide.

Instead of doing one press move and getting the ball back, they will do 2 or 3, because the guy who is supposed to cover for the press-escape pass is not doing his part, and allowing the team in possession to play around the press and beat it.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

The way to get the best out of him is number nine. Get two quick, hard working wingers and full backs on the flanks. People underestimate the amount of work guys like Alves, Rakitic, Xavi and Iniesta did to make Messi great. Rakitic when he was actually good used to cover for Messi alot ditto Alves on that right side.

I think he'd be better as a 10 than a 9.

 

[Porque]

The question is does Messi realise that he has to step out of his comfort level for Barcelona to improve? And by that I mean in hardwork in training, listening to a coach regardless of their previous career success, and not being surrounded by players he likes).

If he still thinks that our failures are the effect of key ingame moments (if only this goal went in, if we had signed this player, if we had kept Valverde, etc) then he will always be big part of the problem, until he leaves. Similar to how Spain always failed because Raul had to play, even when he was past it.

 

[Barcilliant]

We don't even know what his mental state is like at the moment. He's had alot of heart break and disappointment with Argentina and now again with Barcelona.
Maybe he will just quit after 2021. Wouldn't be a bad idea imo.

 

[DonAK]

All these rumors about Inter and Suning heating up, like the rumors of CR leaving Real Madrid. I think at this point it's likely he joins Inter in 2021.

 

[serghei]

We don't even know what his mental state is like at the moment. He's had alot of heart break and disappointment with Argentina and now again with Barcelona.
Maybe he will just quit after 2021. Wouldn't be a bad idea imo.

Retiring at 50m a year is odd.

 

[Tackle]

All these rumors about Inter and Suning heating up, like the rumors of CR leaving Real Madrid. I think at this point it's likely he joins Inter in 2021.

If he doesn't renew by January he is gone. At that point he can sign a pre-contract with any club in the world for the following season.

 

[Porque]

All these rumors about Inter and Suning heating up, like the rumors of CR leaving Real Madrid. I think at this point it's likely he joins Inter in 2021.

Does Messi still have his tax issues? Either way, the new tax rules in Italy are extremely favourable. Meanwhile Inter will have the financial model of Cristiano to know the marketing/financial impact of such a signing and how much of the transfer fee/wage burden is brought back to the club.

 

[Batistuta9]

If he doesn't renew by January he is gone. At that point he can sign a pre-contract with any club in the world for the following season.

Honestly, it's probably best for both parties if he does leave. We can try and build a new team that just won't look for Messi all the time and he can go to a team that isn't in a rebuilding phase.

 

[Kul_z]

TBH, if you put 9 hard-working outfield players out there with Leo, I think that we could do well with switching between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 between attacking and defensive phase. All that Leo would be required to do is put some pressure on the 2 opponent's CB's. That's all.

i think i saw the stat that messi was the player with highest pressure attempts against napoli. When the ball is in 'safe zone' for opposition, messi doesnt press. But when the ball is in unsecure waters messi always press. People here dont want messi to drop deep, but constantly bark how he should be 30-40 meters away from our goal defending, like opposition teams attack us for more then 10 seconds.

So, dont drop deep leo, but run like a madman in defense. Dont drop deep to create attacks, but run like a madman upfront and wait for the ball in final third.
Dont assist leo, your job is to score goals.

So, we have a player that made more key passes then all of our middlefielders combined, highest scorer and assist maker, and like i said, player with highest pressure attempts against napoli, and suddenly he is the biggest problem of them all.

When people acknowledge that when we play high intensity games against world class teams, bar messi we are facing the opponent that has a better player in their ranks on almost every position, including manager one which is the most important one, then we can talk objectively.

Mats- neuer - 45-55
Kimmich- semedo 60-40
Pique - boateng 50 - 50
Alaba - lenglet 55 - 45
Davies - alba 60 - 40
Goretzka - busquets 80 - 20
Tiago - de jong 50 - 50
Mueller - roberto 65 - 35
Perisic - vidal 55 - 45
Gnabry - messi 20 - 80
Lewandowski - suarez 70-30

This is my opinion overall this season, not based on that debacle game. If we look only by the game then you get

Mats - neuer 20-80
Kimmich - semedo 80-20
Pique - boateng 45-55
Lenglet - alaba 20 - 80
Alba - davies 30-70
Busquets - goretzka 10-90
Tiago - de jong 55 - 45
Mueller - roberto 85-15
Perisic - vidal 80 - 20
Messi - gnabry 35 - 65
Lewandowski - suarez 80- 20

We got outperformed on every single position, and i think a lot of you can agree that only de jong can relatively get a pass.

Now a question.

What do you think, if one of our players was playing for bayern in that game, what would be the score if messi played for them when we witnessed that coutinho had two goals and assist?
Messi in that well oiled machine against this shitshow of a team at that night would put at least hattrick of assists and goals.

 

[DonAK]

If he doesn't renew by January he is gone. At that point he can sign a pre-contract with any club in the world for the following season.

Yeah, unless he changes his mind at the last moment with a new board.

Does Messi still have his tax issues? Either way, the new tax rules in Italy are extremely favourable. Meanwhile Inter will have the financial model of Cristiano to know the marketing/financial impact of such a signing and how much of the transfer fee/wage burden is brought back to the club.

No tax issues. As for Inter they are building a really good team. They'll probably sign Tonali and are in talks to sign Ndombele too. They have good defenders already, are building what should be the best midfield in Italy and Lukaku is a legit good striker with Lautaro and Alexis as good options.