Lionel Messi - v7

[serghei]

https://streamable.com/mbzg8

This was the interview with Klopp about 6 months ago.

I agree with you that everybody has to defend as a team, but there is one or two exceptions and I feel that Messi is one of them.

The problem we have I think is that whatever system that we played in the last 3-4 years, it's not working because we have both Suarez and Messi not doing any defensive work.

Exceptions? There can be no exception imo. But there are some positions which have by default a less extensive defensive role. For example, the CF role is the lowest in terms of amount of running, but requires a very high positional sense. Messi is bad at both. As a CF defending in a 4-3-3, you are the only one who can block the vertical progression from CBs to DM. So he'd have to do that. Like in this image.

He'd have to do what Firmino is doing here. Interpose between Otamendi and Fernandinho. The whole shape of Liverpool here is broken if he doesn't do that. And City can pass through their press.

Compare it to Messi/Suarez vs Bayern. Bayern played Alcantara/Goretzka from CBs without any trouble whatsoever from Messi or Suarez.

 

[Messigician]

Tattoos reduce athletes performance every year by 5%

There's a reason Ronaldo doesn't have even a a single one.

Biggest mistake Messi made was getting a tattoo on his golden left foot.

 

[soul24rage]

That doesnt mean Klopp would accept Ronaldo/Messi in their team not defending.

All that says is he keeps the players egos in check and by saying everyone has to defend. You are not Messi/Ronaldo so listen to me.

Bascially how could he tell Messi/Ronaldo how to play when achieved what they have?

The difference is he wouldnt even get into that situation of having Messi/Ronaldo in his team not defending. Not that he would accept it.

For a calibre of Klopp, I think that he could convince Messi to defend more that what he is doing right now, or at the very least defend better much more effectively.

For the underline part, I think this is hypothetical. You could be right though.

 

[Alik]

Let's not ignore the fact that Messi plays 100% of all matches. Which is ridiculous for a player in his physical condition.

In a well functioning team with a more imposing manager, that wouldn't be necessary.

 

[JamDav1982]

For a calibre of Klopp, I think that he could convince Messi to defend more that what he is doing right now, or at the very least defend better much more effectively.

For the underline part, I think this is hypothetical. You could be right though.

I dont thin Klopp would take Messi into his team that is based on such a pressing system where everyone works. One player not pressing as a unit for team like Liverpool and it breaks down.

Not just that it is the message is sends to the team that if you perform to a certain level the principles that this team are built on can be ignored.

If the idea that Messi can press a lot more than he does but is not being persuaded to then that is even worse than I thought.

 

[MTL_Barca]

I think Messi is so good that any coach would at least be tempted to just let him do is thing, letting him get away with minimal movement compared to the rest.

Who knows if it's worth or not these days and we'll probably never find out anyway unless Messi suddenly joins Bayern/Liverpool or Barca turns into a fast hard working team in the span of a couple months.

 

[FCBfan22]

TBH, if you put 9 hard-working outfield players out there with Leo, I think that we could do well with switching between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 between attacking and defensive phase. All that Leo would be required to do is put some pressure on the 2 opponent's CB's. That's all.

 

[JamDav1982]

Let's not ignore the fact that Messi plays 100% of all matches. Which is ridiculous for a player in his physical condition.

In a well functioning team with a more imposing manager, that wouldn't be necessary.

Good luck with resting Messi regularly.

Pep is about the most dominant manager going in that regard and even he couldnt and there is little sign much has changed even though older.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think Messi is so good that any coach would be tempted to just let him do is thing, letting him get away with minimal movement. Who knows if it's worth or not these days and we'll probably never find out anyway unless Messi suddenly joins Bayern/Liverpool or Barca turns into a fast hard working team in the span of a month.

Totally disagree on that.

Top coaches like Klopp wont give up team structure and principles for a 33 year old Messi that would completely change the way their teams play.

 

[Barcilliant]

People saying Messi can play AM or number ten should realise that the traditional AM /10 is becoming extinct. As other posters have mentioned EVERY player has to press and defend. There are no exceptions to this. This is not 2005.

 

[serghei]

I think this discussion would be more interesting if Messi was moving like this at 25-26. You have to consider the age of Messi. These are the last few years of his career. No manager who has a system going on that is working will take Messi at this stage.

Put up Messi in 2015 vs Bayern match and you see a difference that is night and day. That Messi was fully integrated in the team's defensive phase.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Totally disagree on that.

Top coaches like Klopp wont give up team structure and principles for a 33 year old Messi that would completely change the way their teams play.

As i said we'll never find out so it's pointless but i wouldn't be so sure on it. A lot of coaches would probably see it as a challenge to get the best out of the best player of all time.

Not exactly putting 33 year old Messi into todays Liverpool but just generally, as Messi plays like this for years already.

 

[feggydinho]

Imagine all these excuses for Messi with the kind of salary he earns, and we?re still finding a way to make the team fit Messi (33 years now). We shouldn?t be building our team on Messi again since he has aged, and if he doesn?t wanna change and start pressing like the others, we should give him a hero exit cause he?s a Barca?s legend and start a rebuild (though it won?t be smooth). And I don?t think pep, zidane or kloop would want someone that doesn?t press in their team in this present generation

 

[JamDav1982]

As i said we'll never find out so it's pointless but i wouldn't be so sure on it. A lot of coaches would probably see it as a challenge to get the best out of the best player of all time.

Not exactly putting 33 year old Messi into todays Liverpool but just generally, as Messi plays like this for years now still scoring a crazy number of goals.

Can see by how Klopp sets up team and principles he plays by that Messi doesnt fit.

Top coaches want to implement their ideas far more than some challenge to see if what they can get out of Messi.

Messi as a younger player is a different argument but on the here and now there is not place for a 33 yr old Messi in a Klopp team.

 

[malvolio]

Totally disagree on that.

Top coaches like Klopp wont give up team structure and principles for a 33 year old Messi that would completely change the way their teams play.

Easy to talk about fantasy scenarios. They might integrate him or not. Thing is they won't ever have the chance to coach a player like him again.
Most of the anti Messi hate is about fake news, fantasy scenarios and conspiracy.