Lionel Messi - v7

[malvolio]

I'm talking more from a neutral fan/media perspective. Everyone here watches Barca games weekly and they can see he's better, but argument from media/neutral fan perspective will always go back to: titles, clutch moments, personal accolades. If you mention that CR7 had an amazing team that led him to 4 CL's, the counter argument will always be, "Well Messi had Xavi and Iniesta, why did they win only three CL's?" if you say national team is shit, people will claim "Portugal is not better/maybe even worse than Argentina", or "Messi was in three finals with Argentina, why didn't he do anything? CR7 has always been a strong leader for Portugal."

Look I'm a huge Messi fan, but I'm being real. Everyone including me knows he's better regardless of how many more titles CR7 can win. I just want history to be kind to Messi.

So this is about our insecurities or frustration that other fans/neutrals might think that Cristiano was better than him? Or to have bragging rights over friends when going to the pub?

This whole comparison between players will never end anyway. That's why even now there are people bringing Pele or Maradona into the greatest ever discussion.

If Messi will win something of value in the years leading to his retirement then fine. If not, than it's all the same. He still is the GOAT, until someone better comes along.

 

[Batistuta9]

Also, all time greats and European cup/CL trophy counts:

Maldini - 5
CR7 - 5
Di Stefano - 5
Messi - 4 (3.5 really but everyone says Pele won 3 WCs when he didn't even do anything in 1962)
Xavi - 4 (3 in a way)
Iniesta - 4
Modric - 4
Cruyff - 3
Beckenbauer - 3
Gerd Muller - 3
Van Basten - 2
Eusebio - 2
Platini - 1
Zidane - 1
Best - 1
R10 - 1
R9 - 0
Romario - 0
Maradona - 0


Even guys like Henry, Robben, Suarez have 1.
Guys like Lewa 0 (although it might be 1 soon). CL is hard to win.

None of them are as good as Batistuta. He could have 10 CL's if he wanted to. He just knew Fiorentina would get relegated if he left.

 

[serghei]

If he wins the Copa, he will cement himself as top 3 all time. He already is IMO but these CL humiliations aren't doing him any favors. A couple more of those and they'll outweigh some of the legendary performances he's put forth.

I'm said many times here I'm a Messi fan but I value Barcelona success before him. In an ideal world with an amigo less squad, it would be a good end to his Barca story to go off on a title. But if he doesn't wisen up and start managing himself better (being subbed out, resting, playing more tactically), we need to move on from him. It would be a shame to root against him (in relation to Barcelona) if he goes to a place like City, but hey, I managed to do it for Pep.

I am the same. Probably more extreme, but in the same direction generally.

 

[MagIX]

None of them are as good as Batistuta. He could have 10 CL's if he wanted to. He just knew Fiorentina would get relegated if he left.

Gabriel Batistuta.... what a CF!! Suarez isn?t even half as good as Batistuta

 

[Mitchell1978]

If he wins the Copa, he will cement himself as top 3 all time. He already is IMO but these CL humiliations aren't doing him any favors. A couple more of those and they'll outweigh some of the legendary performances he's put forth.

Maradona had the talent (very close to Leo) but doesn't have the stats, nor the durability nor the longevity.
Pele never played in Europe and scored most of his goals in a regional league.
Other players simply didn't have the talent or individual level of those 3.
Di Stefano is probably 4e.

He is top 2 all time at the least, only Pele has an argument but not a very good one.
His legacy isn't perfect but neither is anybody else.
For most football analysts today he is the GOAT.
He has the stats, the trophies, the personale accolades, the talent and the technical ability.
He is a top 5 goalscorer/finisher of all time, a top 5 playmaker/creator of all time and a top 5 dribbler of all time.
No other player fits that category.

And btw, you're no Messi fan with your biased views.

 

[Raketa10]

Sometimes you just need a bit of luck and things to go your way. If he had that at international level, he could have easily been a world cup winner and multiple Copa America winner today. It's not like they weren't close, they lost the WC final in extra time and the copas on penalties.

Exactly! If that clown Higuain scored half of those 1 on 1 chances Messi would have won both WC and Copa.

 

[Hardy]

Marcelo Bechler

“It is very likely he leaves Bar?a if there is another project, I don't know where or which club. It is impossible to pay €700M, but I think they don't want him here unhappy. After all that Messi gave to them, they don't want him here as a prisoner."

“He is angry with the board and disappointed with the club and wants to leave now. Barca are pessimistic because they can't offer a solid project and can't do much to help him.”

“At the beginning of the season Messi said what was important was not a big contract or money, but a strong project. And with no titles & loss to Bayern, he still has 3 or 4 years left to play and he knows he can help Barca - but they can‘t help him."

“Messi has always thought him and Barca were 'just one thing,' but now he is thinking maybe he can be another thing without Barcelona. He can make another step and try to win without Barcelona.”

 

[AnfieldEd]

Also, all time greats and European cup/CL trophy counts:

Maldini - 5
CR7 - 5
Di Stefano - 5
Messi - 4 (3.5 really but everyone says Pele won 3 WCs when he didn't even do anything in 1962)
Xavi - 4 (3 in a way)
Iniesta - 4
Modric - 4
Cruyff - 3
Beckenbauer - 3
Gerd Muller - 3
Van Basten - 2
Eusebio - 2
Platini - 1
Zidane - 1
Best - 1
R10 - 1
R9 - 0
Romario - 0
Maradona - 0


Even guys like Henry, Robben, Suarez have 1.
Guys like Lewa 0 (although it might be 1 soon). CL is hard to win.

How can you forget the legend Phil Neal who has 4 European Cup medals!!! If you're putting in Van Basten and Eusebio with 2 each and Muller and Beckenbauer with 3 each then Dalglish, Hansen and Souness with 3 each need to be on that list also

 

[kattanib]

I am the same. Probably more extreme, but in the same direction generally.

I think a lot of people who truly support Barcelona and have for years know that it is all about the club and what is best for the club. No one is bigger than the club not even Messi. Also as much as Messi has given the club, the club gave him more. The club made Messi through giving a suitable platform to play in and through enabling him ever since he was young until the money being used to send his children to school.

Anyways. Messi can stay or can go, but ultimately it should be based on what is best for the club at the given moment. Even if Messi isn?t the issue but selling him will cause the needed domino effect for positive change and will yield sufficient money to build the squad then be it.

 

[snowy]

You better be trying to ward off bad luck, because he's 33 years old today!

yaaaaikkkss, this totally escaped me!

Fear not Marie, Queen among women, for the Lord is with thee, Light Eternal, and Blessed is the Fruit of thy Womb.

Leo, Neo, Gepetto... I'm not even worried for him, he'll do well anywhere he goes. And if retires early, he gets to enjoy his riches. Everything gonna be airrry

If he goes, would be a jam to see him crush it alongside Ziyech, Havertz, Werner, Pulpul at Poch Chel OMG!!! _ PSG would be cool too and this way, he'd keep the blue theme goin. Let's see how it pans out.

 

[Richard.H]

Marcelo Bechler

“It is very likely he leaves Bar?a if there is another project, I don't know where or which club. It is impossible to pay €700M, but I think they don't want him here unhappy. After all that Messi gave to them, they don't want him here as a prisoner."

“He is angry with the board and disappointed with the club and wants to leave now. Barca are pessimistic because they can't offer a solid project and can't do much to help him.”

“At the beginning of the season Messi said what was important was not a big contract or money, but a strong project. And with no titles & loss to Bayern, he still has 3 or 4 years left to play and he knows he can help Barca - but they can‘t help him."

It would be better for his career if he leaves to a team that has a solid sporting project. I hope this is true because it will benefit both parties in the long term. It will take us at the minimum two seasons to build a new strong team. Messi does not have the time for that.

 

[KingLeo10]

How can you forget the legend Phil Neal who has 4 European Cup medals!!! If you're putting in Van Basten and Eusebio with 2 each and Muller and Beckenbauer with 3 each then Dalglish, Hansen and Souness with 3 each need to be on that list also

I always thought your 1970s/1980s dynasty was a great collective effort. Lots of world class players (clearly) but not towering figures.

Eusebio and Van Basten are Ballon d'Or/multiple Ballon d'Or winners and that was my criterion. Even guys like Henry and Robben didn't make the cut, as I noted. But at the end of the day, it's subjective. We could start adding in your names and names like Gullit, Pirlo, Rijkaard, Seedorf and so forth.

 

[Hardy]

cadenaser

phone conversation between Bartomeu and Jorge Messi, who is in Argentina. Barto said to him that Koeman count on him for the project.

Messi’s father has told Bartomeu that the person who they have to talk to is Messi himself, to explain the project to him face to face.

 

[jairzinho]

Why should the club need to pitch the new project to Messi? I know he is the face of the club and captain but at this late stage of his career, a big part of the new project should include what happens after he leaves. Which in reality could be a a season from now.

 

[Givenchy]

I want to believe Messi has finally realized shit needs to change and that his buddies need to leave in order for a competitive project but sadly this is most likely a power play to ensure those buddies are still at the club

if we go into next season exactly the same with Messi still walking around, Ronaldo might just be the goat of this generation