Lionel Messi - v7

[khaled_a_d]

Ronaldo has had a better career than Maradona, so what, nobody cares. Who is the better player between the two? Maradona no debate, that is all that matters. The Messi V Ronaldo debate ended long ago. What Messi has done over his career from an individual standpoint is unmatched by any player and that is what is important, how many trophies they won is impacted enormously by outside forces the player cannot control, he can only control what he does as an individual and on that score Messi has had a phenomenal career one that Ronaldo could only dream of.

No debate? Doubt it.
For me CR7 is better player and had better career than Maradona
I have Messi as my GOAT, but I think CR7 has strong argument as close second.
No players dominated football like those 2, niether in same way or duration.
The fact thay even few younger generations ow failed to match them is cementing it more.

 

[serghei]

Did i refuse the conversation? You're doing it again, ignoring the facts. If you want to have a serious conversations about it, than acknowledge all facts from all angles.

And yes talent isn't everything, that's why you don't ignore things like coaches, team mates, stats,..

What facts? Both teams had the best teammates and the best managers. They had the luxury of playing for the best teams around in the last 10+ years.

 

[serghei]

Haven't followed the discussion at all.

But Messi has 15 goals fewer with 27 less games played.

Messi has 12 goals in 23 quarter final matches. Ronaldo has 25 in 22 matches. That's more than double. I'd say these are the goals that matter. Not Group Stage goals.

CL starts in the knockouts. As we all know considering we smash through the groups and get humiliated in the knockouts.

No debate? Doubt it.
For me CR7 is better player and had better career than Maradona
I have Messi as my GOAT, but I think CR7 has strong argument as close second.
No players dominated football like those 2, niether in same way or duration.
The fact thay even few younger generations ow failed to match them is cementing it more.

I don't even compare between eras. Too many things are different.

I have it the same. Messi first, Ronaldo close second. But that's not because Messi is greater, but because I like players that dribble multiple opponents, and Messi was an incredible dribbler.

 

[Rory]

Where was big mentality Ronaldo when we beat united 2-0? Where was big mentality workaholic Ronaldo when we knocked them out in 2011? Where was he when Lewandowski scores 4bto take Dortmund to the final? Where was he getting knocked out in the last 16 two years running with a Juve that has consistently reached finals/semi finals prior to his arrival?

Both great players who have achieved lots and deserve respect. Key word being respect, let?s not shit on Messi or Ronaldo for that matter for 3 or 4 games in their careers. How about that?

I don?t even care if Messi goes tbh, last chance to win ucl for this squad was anfield and we blew it. Next generation of our team would be welcome now.

 

[Batistuta9]

Messi has 12 goals in 23 quarter final matches. Ronaldo has 25 in 22 matches. That's more than double. I'd say these are the goals that matter. Not Group Stage goals.

CL starts in the knockouts. As we all know considering we smash through the groups and get humiliated in the knockouts.

It's not as simple as that. Our midfield has lacked any creativity since xavi and iniesta declined/left so around 5 years now. Messi has had to take the role of main creator and goalscorer. You can't underestimate the importance of help. It's why juve haven't been able to go past the quarters with CR7

 

[malvolio]

We should rename this thread to "Sucking Cristiano Ronaldo's dick marathon" as many in here seem to like that egoistic narcissistic cunt so much. It's ok, Messi just gave a part of his life to this club, making it the best in the world in the process, nothing outstanding.

He didn't "take challenges" for fame and money. Like Neymar or Cristiano, who don't give a shit about anyone or any club, other than themselves.

 

[serghei]

It's not as simple as that. Our midfield has lacked any creativity since xavi and iniesta declined/left so around 5 years now. Messi has had to take the role of main creator and goalscorer. You can't underestimate the importance of help. It's why juve haven't been able to go past the quarters with CR7

Yes, and we can find these excuses to also diminish Messi's results during Spain's golden era. Ronaldo fans can also say Messi had his best period in CL with Guardiola as manager and all time great players on every position almost. And after those players were gone, Messi and the other players started to pick up humiliation after humiliation.

Both players had loads of help. Neither carry anything on their own.

If both of them had been part of weak teams, neither would've won a single CL. Or maybe 1 at most, when the stars lined up.

 

[KingLeo10]

I have a better idea.

Let's stop losing hours over a "debate" that has no definitive end while these two continue to make 100-200 M euro per year or more from salaries and endorsements.

I recommend Jordan if anyone wants an easy argument. Flawless resume.

 

[Rory]

Also big mentality, workaholic Mr Champions league himself contributes to a goal in the knockout stages every 87 minutes and Messi does every 103 mins. Hardly a huge difference when you can scratch off a few for offside goals.

 

[Judoman]

What facts? Both teams had the best teammates and the best managers. They had the luxury of playing for the best teams around in the last 10+ years.

Valverde, Tata, Setien, Tito,.... are best managers? Compare them against CR7 managers.

After Xavi-Iniesta prime, Barca had at least one defective line any given season and Messi was the only creator since than with Neymar being the only exception in his last season here. Is Semedo best possible team mate? Rakitic? Current version of Suarez? Slow ass Busquets? Just few examples out of many.

He was the only creator and the primary scorer for the most part of the last 10 years. How does that apply to team tactic if you have a crappy coach? You get Messi dependencia and you become predictable, which isn't such a problem
in the league, but it is a problem in the elimination rounds.

On the other hand you have Mourinho, Zidane, Ancelotti as coaches.

You have a Modric-Kroos midfield, Benzema-Bale in attack and Ramos-Marcelo in defence. Your only job is to score.

Check their advanced stats, goals vs. attempts, goals vs. opponents (which ones), passing %, FK %,...

Check their international goals, teams that play in SA and teams that play in europe.

If you want to compare them when they both had top teams with top managers check the Ferguson Man united vs. Guardiola Barca. Those were as close to head 2 head as you can get in football.

 

[Batistuta9]

Yes, and we can find these excuses to also diminish Messi's results during Spain's golden era. Ronaldo fans can also say Messi had his best period in CL with Guardiola as manager and all time great players on every position almost. And after those players were gone, Messi and the other players started to pick up humiliation after humiliation.

Both players had loads of help. Neither carry anything on their own.

If both of them had been part of weak teams, neither would've won a single CL. Or maybe 1 at most, when the stars lined up.

Exactly. That's what doesn't sit right with me, when Ronaldo fans bring up he has more CL's and has scored more, it's as if he has beat Messi whereas his team have been better on more occasions. Individually, Messi has been better than Ronaldo.

 

[Batistuta9]

I have a better idea.

Let's stop losing hours over a "debate" that has no definitive end while these two continue to make 100-200 M euro per year or more from salaries and endorsements.

I recommend Jordan if anyone wants an easy argument. Flawless resume.

You'll still get deluded guys saying LeBron is better 😂

 

[raskolnikov]

Ever since media ran with the importance of statistics to highlight the messi vs Ronaldo narrative since they are not comparable otherwise, the whole idea of a great footballer has shifted.

Now you can play badly,score and be a great player. Ronaldo made a career out of that in enpowered teams. Or is it coincidence strikers are scoring more nowadays?

Football went from being a great player to putting in stats.
Remember how Dinho and Kaka were the best in the world. If that was today people would rate Lampard above them.

Before social media best players got on the highlight reel. Why do you think your favourite narcisist did those useless stepovers at United before figuring out scoring gets you even more attention?

Ronaldo's whole career is smoke, mirrors and best pr ever when he cant hold a candle to Messi in the talent department. Nobody bar real Ronaldo before injuries and dinho post Maradona.

There is a reasin why nobody compares Gerd Muller to Cruyff. Beckenbauer wouldnt be that guy in this social media stats fettish era.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

This generation Top5:

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Iniesta
4. Xavi
5. Modric

But if you need to turn a match in a Cl knockout match I would pick Ronaldo over any player in the history of football.

 

[Hardy]

Exactly. That's what doesn't sit right with me, when Ronaldo fans bring up he has more CL's and has scored more, it's as if he has beat Messi whereas his team have been better on more occasions. Individually, Messi has been better than Ronaldo.

if we're talking about CL don't think this is actually true, at least not in the last 6-7 years, Messi has barely 2 better CL campaign than Ronaldo (2015 and last year), that's all. He outperformed Ronaldo in La Liga but that's another story.