Lionel Messi - v7

[KingLeo10]

Found another MJ fanboy. Griezmann is several levels above MJ , not even up for debate.

Flawless technique dawg.

Antoine "handing out Ls like Ratatouille" Griezmann, dawgs.

 

[malvolio]

Also big mentality, workaholic Mr Champions league himself contributes to a goal in the knockout stages every 87 minutes and Messi does every 103 mins. Hardly a huge difference when you can scratch off a few for offside goals.

in a competition that has 7 games basically. and if you play it right you only have to push hard in 4-5 matches. without taking into account lucky draws, refereeing decisions or injuries.

 

[Mitchell1978]

1. i'll give you Lyon but at the end of the day both scored 2 against them. but i'll give you that one because barca did eliminate lyon. but both barca and juve should eliminate lyon comfortably.
2. sure, messi was great against united, but lol, united are a very average team. it would have been a colossal embarassment if he had not beat them.
3. the CL knockouts are two-legged affairs. messi was great at the camp nou vs liverpool but failed to do anything in the second leg, in which we were destroyed 4-0. we were eliminated. that's like praising Di Maria for being great in the 4-0 away at PSG. doesn't matter, barca humiliated PSG in the return leg and progressed. that's what matters.
4. messi was indeed great vs napoli, but again, not a terrible tough match.
5. youre right until you bring up CR. that's a counter factual. what ifs dont count. juve would likely have been beat by bayern but we just dont know what the score would be. its just hypotheticals

the record is, in two years, 2 humiliations for messi, 0 for CR.

Messi has been comfortably better then CR7 the last 2 seasons in the CL, you're so biased it puts other Messi-haters here to shame. You sound like the CR7 PR-machine.
About the Anfield game, he created 3 clear cut chances that game, so he didn't fail to do anything, his teammates failed him.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I don't even compare between eras. Too many things are different.

I don't like to do it either, but since everybody does it is mute at this point to be logical and avoid it

 

[BarcaOG]

in a competition that has 7 games basically. and if you play it right you only have to push hard in 4-5 matches. without taking into account lucky draws, refereeing decisions or injuries.

lol, looking for every possible excuse. no, its not just a competition with 7 games, even if it is that. its the most elite club competition in the world, where you have to be almost perfect every game, against top opposition, to win it. chelsea 2012 are an exception to this rule. the fact is that neither barcelona nor messi has been able to step up in this competition, while CR has. messi has 1 CL in the last 9 years while CR has 4. no other way around it no matter how hard you want to spin it

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

in a competition that has 7 games basically. and if you play it right you only have to push hard in 4-5 matches. without taking into account lucky draws, refereeing decisions or injuries.

True but I think Ronaldo's style fits better for CL. He can score versus any team. Messis style isn't as good versus all type of opponents.

 

[KingLeo10]

lol, looking for every possible excuse. no, its not just a competition with 7 games, even if it is that. its the most elite club competition in the world, where you have to be almost perfect every game, against top opposition, to win it. chelsea 2012 are an exception to this rule. the fact is that neither barcelona nor messi has been able to step up in this competition, while CR has. messi has 1 CL in the last 9 years while CR has 4. no other way around it no matter how hard you want to spin it

Counting CR7's wins when he has the better team and excluding the times Messi has the better team, just to paint the picture of Messi has 1 CL in 9 years. If you include one more year it becomes 2 in 10, then 3 in 12, and then 4 in 15.

You keep harping on about objectivity but selective stat picking is the very definition of spinning.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Horatio]

I don't like to do it either, but since everybody does it is mute at this point to be logical and avoid it

moot*

 

[BarcaOG]

Messi has been comfortably better then CR7 the last 2 seasons in the CL, you're so biased it puts other Messi-haters here to shame. You sound like the CR7 PR-machine.
About the Anfield game, he created 3 clear cut chances that game, so he didn't fail to do anything, his teammates failed him.

im not a messi hater. i do think messi is better than CR; he certainly has been a better league player. but not in the CL and certainly not in the knockouts.

about anfield, that's a lazy argument. isnt messi supposed to be the best ever? shouldnt the best ever take matters into his own hands instead of relying on others? i know the maradona comparison is overdone, but what is maradone remembered for in the end? not any chances he created. experts and non experts remember maradona for scoring two goals against englad himself. messi managed a similar accomplishment in 09, 11 and 15, but not nice, not even close. instead, its disaster after disaster, year after year, coach after coach. 0-3 vs juventus; 3-0 or w.e against roma, 4-0 against liverpool, 8-2 vs bayern.

you'd forgive me for wondering what kind of best player EVER would be involved in so many humiliations.

 

[Batistuta9]

if we're talking about CL don't think this is actually true, at least not in the last 6-7 years, Messi has barely 2 better CL campaign than Ronaldo (2015 and last year), that's all. He outperformed Ronaldo in La Liga but that's another story.

I was talking about his whole career. But as in my reply to serghei, the reason CR7 has been able to perform better overall the last 6-7 years was because he had an excellent team perfectly suited to him, just like we had for Messi earlier on in his career. If he was capable of winning the tournament by himself, juve would have done better.

 

[Mitchell1978]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Very similar to Federer - Nadal rivalry. At one point it was ridiculous to compare. Now it's not. With superior mentality and work ethic Nadal has placed himself in the same conversation with Federer. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

It's one thing to prefer one or the other based on taste, style etc. Another thing to completely deny one's achievements and pretend the comparison is not real. It's very real, and it's played on even footing.

Messi is far above in League play, its not just an edge, 10 titles vs 7, 7 times topscorer vs 4, 6 times European Golden Shoe vs 4, 6 times leading the league in assists vs 0. Better peak and better career averages.
In CL, its 5 vs 4 in CR7 favour, 7 vs 6 in being topscorer of the competition. CR7 has the higher seasonal numbers but Messi again better career average in goals and assists. The CL is far closer.
Add other competitions into the mix and the gap agains widens in favour of Leo, more goals, more assits, higher peak and better career averages.
And he has a much better H2H also, more wins, goals and assists.

 

[Tackle]

Messi has been comfortably better then CR7 the last 2 seasons in the CL, you're so biased it puts other Messi-haters here to shame. You sound like the CR7 PR-machine.
About the Anfield game, he created 3 clear cut chances that game, so he didn't fail to do anything, his teammates failed him.

Messi has been better in the CL the last 2 seasons (mostly last season), but there is an age difference. Messi was 31-32. Ronaldo was 34-35.

Messi might not even be playing at age 34 and if he is I doubt he does any better.

 

[BarcaOG]

Counting CR7's wins when he has the better team and excluding the times Messi has the better team, just to paint the picture of Messi has 1 CL in 9 years. If you include one more year it becomes 2 in 10, then 3 in 12, and then 4 in 15.

You keep harping on about objectivity but selective stat picking is the very definition of spinning.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

messi got the 2006 medal but you're kidding yourself if you think messi led that barcelona side to victory in paris. that team was led by dinho, eto, and deco; it was not yet the barca of messi, xavi and iniesta. but ok, he did get the medal, fine.

meanwhile CR was the key man for united in 08, was top CL scorer for real in 2014, 2016, 2017, and 2018. which means he had a direct and indispensable hand in all of his 5 CL medals, while we can say that only of 3 of messi's 4 medals. yes, CR also had great support in modric, ramos, and bale earlier on, but so did messi with xavi, iniesta, villa, alves, suarez in 2015 and neyman.

 

[serghei]

It's moot to say Ronaldo had a better team. Because when Messi won, Messi had a better team. So they are all elite and decisive with top class teams around them, or they aren't.

What goes with Ronaldo, goes with Messi as well.

Both won all their CLs with the best teams. Both fail when their teams aren't good enough.

If we look at this like that, neither cut it without great teammates, and both elevate already great teams to greater levels.

You can't say about Ronaldo having great teammates, and forget to mention that everytime Messi did great against top sides in Europe, he had certain players like prime Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, or peak Neymar and Suarez sharing the trio with him. Or great football minds like Guardiola on the side.

Sorry, but I see it as a near equal rivalry between two all time greats having a different style. I prefer the style of Messi.

 

[Mitchell1978]

im not a messi hater. i do think messi is better than CR; he certainly has been a better league player. but not in the CL and certainly not in the knockouts.

about anfield, that's a lazy argument. isnt messi supposed to be the best ever? shouldnt the best ever take matters into his own hands instead of relying on others? i know the maradona comparison is overdone, but what is maradone remembered for in the end? not any chances he created. experts and non experts remember maradona for scoring two goals against englad himself. messi managed a similar accomplishment in 09, 11 and 15, but not nice, not even close. instead, its disaster after disaster, year after year, coach after coach. 0-3 vs juventus; 3-0 or w.e against roma, 4-0 against liverpool, 8-2 vs bayern.

you'd forgive me for wondering what kind of best player EVER would be involved in so many humiliations.

2 goals and 4 clear chances created (lets not forget putting Dembele alone in front of goal after he scored 2 in the first game) over 2 games against Liverpool, the best team in the World at that time thats as much as you can expect from anybody. The team failed him not the other way around.