Lionel Messi - v7

[BarcaOG]

Messi and CR7's performances last 2 years in CL:

Messi destroyed Lyon that beat CR7 with 2 goals. His 2 goals were better than CR7's penalty and a great goal.
Messi destroyed United with 2 goals.
Messi won us the Camp Nou tie against eventual champions Liverpool with 2 goals.
Messi played a big part in beating Napoli with a goal and basically all productivity in the home leg.
Messi no showed v Bayern who are several levels above the Lyon that knocked out CR7. This is where the criticism is fair but if you believe CR7 and Juve wouldn't have gotten folded for 4-5 goals at least, you need reassessment.

You tell me how Messi hasn't been objectively better than CR7 in the last 2 seasons in the CL. Progressed farther and had more production.

1. i'll give you Lyon but at the end of the day both scored 2 against them. but i'll give you that one because barca did eliminate lyon. but both barca and juve should eliminate lyon comfortably.
2. sure, messi was great against united, but lol, united are a very average team. it would have been a colossal embarassment if he had not beat them.
3. the CL knockouts are two-legged affairs. messi was great at the camp nou vs liverpool but failed to do anything in the second leg, in which we were destroyed 4-0. we were eliminated. that's like praising Di Maria for being great in the 4-0 away at PSG. doesn't matter, barca humiliated PSG in the return leg and progressed. that's what matters.
4. messi was indeed great vs napoli, but again, not a terrible tough match.
5. youre right until you bring up CR. that's a counter factual. what ifs dont count. juve would likely have been beat by bayern but we just dont know what the score would be. its just hypotheticals

the record is, in two years, 2 humiliations for messi, 0 for CR.

 

[KingLeo10]

the record is, in two years, 2 humiliations for messi, 0 for CR.

You're deluded.

Getting knocked out by Ajax kids (losing the tie in Turin of all place; where was his mental strength and will then?) and losing to Lyon in R of 16 is a humiliation.

If you're counting Messi losing to Liverpool (3-4) as a humiliation, then the above is textbook humilation.

Go parade Juve forums if you're going to use this sort of logic.

 

[blueandclaret]

It?s a team game. I am always floored by the amount of people that rip on Messi for his teams shortcomings in the CL. Even the amount of trash that gets said about his Liverpool performance when he scored a brace. No reason a team shouldn?t be able to hold onto a damn 3-0 lead when the other team is missing key players. I?ve never seen a situation where a club failed a player worse. There was no way Barca would have lost to that crap Tottenham team in the final. Had that happened, Messi is sitting with the same number of CL trophies as Ronaldo. Wonder how much different the narrative would have been.

 

[soul24rage]

1. i'll give you Lyon but at the end of the day both scored 2 against them. but i'll give you that one because barca did eliminate lyon. but both barca and juve should eliminate lyon comfortably.
2. sure, messi was great against united, but lol, united are a very average team. it would have been a colossal embarassment if he had not beat them.
3. the CL knockouts are two-legged affairs. messi was great at the camp nou vs liverpool but failed to do anything in the second leg, in which we were destroyed 4-0. we were eliminated. that's like praising Di Maria for being great in the 4-0 away at PSG. doesn't matter, barca humiliated PSG in the return leg and progressed. that's what matters.
4. messi was indeed great vs napoli, but again, not a terrible tough match.
5. youre right until you bring up CR. that's a counter factual. what ifs dont count. juve would likely have been beat by bayern but we just dont know what the score would be. its just hypotheticals

the record is, in two years, 2 humiliations for messi, 0 for CR.

I mean it's hard to get humiliated if you don't face the favorites in that 2 year span.

 

[KingLeo10]

Messi losing to strong teams is a humiliation but CR7, the greatest CL player by your own admission, getting sent packing by Ajax and Lyon is not.

This actually infuriated me. You actually have the audacity to underline it as if it is factual

 

[sickstar]

So then what does that say about his captaincy and leadership?

He's not captain material. Everyone agree to that.
We don't know if he demanded or ever rejected that responsibility, though.
Maybe, he's just accepting it and tried to do his best.
His fault is not realizing his own characteristic, his limit. That he is never a captain material.

 

[KingLeo10]

Serghei dropped thie biggest hot take and bounced.

Messigician taking notes as we speak.

And he was accusing me of having the hot take the other day.

Serghei dawg, cash me outside, how bout tha

 

[ebc_99]

Messi losing to strong teams is a humiliation but CR7, the greatest CL player by your own admission, getting sent packing by Ajax and Lyon is not.

This actually infuriated me. You actually have the audacity to underline it as if it is factual

Exactly, Juve have done worse in Europe since Ronaldo has gone there, before they got beaten by the likes of Bayern and Real but now by Ajax and Lyon, and Barca beat Lyon 5 - 1 last year I think.

 

[sickstar]

Also cr failed to take the top score for two seasons since joining juve. I pity him lol. Last year it's an old player, this year an italian bomber. Even this year when he got himself countless penalties to statpad it.

 

[serghei]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Very similar to Federer - Nadal rivalry. At one point it was ridiculous to compare. Now it's not. With superior mentality and work ethic Nadal has placed himself in the same conversation with Federer. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

It's one thing to prefer one or the other based on taste, style etc. Another thing to completely deny one's achievements and pretend the comparison is not real. It's very real, and it's played on even footing.

 

[KingLeo10]

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional.

Not many argue with this (I don't), but when people start arguing the reverse (not you, but last 2-3 pages) is when the reaction is strong.

If CR7 wins a CL with this Juve, then the argument can be made that he's > Messi career wise. I don't have any problem with that.

 

[JohnN]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Very similar to Federer - Nadal rivalry. At one point it was ridiculous to compare. Now it's not. With superior mentality and work ethic Nadal has placed himself in the same conversation with Federer. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

Ok, good!

An edge? He has a freaking edge? are you kidding me now? Great way of downplaying all the La Ligas won directly against Ronaldo's team. Non biased whatsoever..
I have admitted I am too biased to even see good points. But these are trash.

 

[KingLeo10]

I mainly lost it at the "done it in 3 leagues" narrative. Textbook Redcafe CR7 fanboy verbiage. As if winning a league under SAF or winning this carcass of Serie A is any sort of achievement whatsoever.

 

[ebc_99]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Ronaldo has had a better career than Maradona, so what, nobody cares. Who is the better player between the two? Maradona no debate, that is all that matters. The Messi V Ronaldo debate ended long ago. What Messi has done over his career from an individual standpoint is unmatched by any player and that is what is important, how many trophies they won is impacted enormously by outside forces the player cannot control, he can only control what he does as an individual and on that score Messi has had a phenomenal career one that Ronaldo could only dream of.

 

[serghei]

Ok, good!

An edge? He has a freaking edge? are you kidding me now? Great way of downplaying all the La Ligas won directly against Ronaldo's team. Non biased whatsoever..
I have admitted I am too biased to even see good points. But these are trash.

Read properly.

I said he has an edge in some areas compared to Messi. For fucks sake. Read properly.

Who has more goals in CL? Fucking Ronaldo by far. So, ergo, he has an age in a very important area compared to Messi!

It's absurd to argue with blind fans.