Lionel Messi - v7

[vegitot]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Very similar to Federer - Nadal rivalry. At one point it was ridiculous to compare. Now it's not. With superior mentality and work ethic Nadal has placed himself in the same conversation with Federer. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

It's one thing to prefer one or the other based on taste, style etc. Another thing to completely deny one's achievements and pretend the comparison is not real. It's very real, and it's played on even footing.

Bullshit. Gerd Muller's career is way better than Cruyff and Maradona combined yet he is not top 5 player of all time.

To you Pedro must be better than Maradona.

 

[serghei]

I'm active on a tennis forum, and a good portion of Federer's fan are as delusioned. They argue Federer can't be compared with Djokovic and Nadal. I'm a Federer fan, but there's nothing to back that with solid arguments.

It's simply a stylistic preference, trying to be made to pass as fact.

 

[serghei]

Let's just drop it. You can't raise this subject in a neutral way on Barca forum ffs. Anothing other than Messi is GOAT, best ever, Ronaldo is piss in comparison, won't do.

 

[Judoman]

I know you're Messi fans guys, but it's no doubt at this point that Ronaldo has placed himself right up there with Messi, and even beats him in some areas. Never said Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, but career wise, he's similar, and a case can be made that he's even achieved more.

It's one thing to make fun of Ronaldo because of his ridiculous obsessions, his badly done statues, his self-centered persona. It's another thing to look at what he has achieved. He has achieved as much as Messi. In CL he achieved more. In league campaigns Messi has an edge.

Guys pretending Messi is another level compared to Ronaldo career wise are absolutely delusional. What I said in that post in not in any way a hot take or anything of the sort.

Very similar to Federer - Nadal rivalry. At one point it was ridiculous to compare. Now it's not. With superior mentality and work ethic Nadal has placed himself in the same conversation with Federer. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

It's one thing to prefer one or the other based on taste, style etc. Another thing to completely deny one's achievements and pretend the comparison is not real. It's very real, and it's played on even footing.

The issue is that you insist on looking at this comparison as an 1:1 thing and you ignore a lot of parameters/facts. It's a team sport.

Compare with whom they played. Coaches, institutions/managers, team mates, compare their advanced stats not just end numbers. Than apply this facts to their production and let's see what you discover.

Also the fact that Ronaldo pretty much matched Messi's production says all about his mentality (top of the line), but he really isn't a leader although he is much better at it than Messi.

But talent vise he is not even the same bracket.

 

[sickstar]

Xavi, iniesta, messi >> ll won
Iniesta, messi >> ll won
Messi >> ll won
.... (Fati, pedri, de jong) >> ?? I wondee

Xavi, iniesta, messi >> ucl won
Iniesta, messi >> ucl won
Messi >> no ucl won
.... (Fati, pedri, de jong) >> ?? I wondee

 

[vegitot]

Let's just drop it. You can't raise this subject in a neutral way on Barca forum ffs. Anothing other than Messi is GOAT, best ever, Ronaldo is piss in comparison, won't do.

Lmao Ronaldo fan. Care to explain why Muller never on the same level of Cruyff, Maradona???

You simply can never do. All of your excuse is Ronaldo has more UCL goals and win one more UCL, never care for the quality that player displays through out their career.

 

[serghei]

The issue is that you insist on looking at this comparison as an 1:1 thing and you ignore a lot of parameters/facts. It's a team sport.

Compare with whom they played. Coaches, institutions/managers, team mates, compare their advanced stats not just end numbers. Than apply this facts to their production and let's see what you discover.

Also the fact that Ronaldo pretty much matched Messi's production says all about his mentality (top of the line), but he really isn't a leader although he is much better at it than Messi.

But talent vise he is not even the same bracket.

OK, refuse the conversation then. I accept perfectly the position where you refuse to compare individuals because football is a team sport and a lot of factors are to be considered. But what goes for Ronaldo, same goes for Messi.

Talent wise, Ronaldo is not in the same tier as Messi. But talent isn't everything.

 

[serghei]

Lmao Ronaldo fan. Care to explain why Muller never on the same level of Cruyff, Maradona???

You simply can never do. All of your excuse is Ronaldo has more UCL goals and win one more UCL, never care for the quality that player displays through out their career.

Ronaldo fan...

Isn't it possible that I'm a fan of neither, but I like both for different reasons?

 

[vegitot]

I actually agree with some of things you are saying @Serghei and Im sure most of the BF members do. But you have this tendency to push it a little far when it comes to Messi (hence my hot take comment).

He is pissed because Messi can not save his beloved Setien aka Cruyff's successor lol.

 

[blueandclaret]

I mainly lost it at the "done it in 3 leagues" narrative. Textbook Redcafe CR7 fanboy verbiage. As if winning a league under SAF or winning this carcass of Serie A is any sort of achievement whatsoever.

I can?t stand those fans who say that he wins it in other leagues. As if Juve didn?t win Serie A every year before he arrived. They were also winning Coppa Italia before he showed up, which they can?t seem to win since he arrived. I think it?s kinda crazy in 17 years he?s only won 7 major league titles. That?s not very impressive.

 

[vegitot]

Ronaldo fan...

Isn't it possible that I'm a fan of neither, but I like both for different reasons?

No need to hide it. I want to hear reasons why Muller is not on the level of Maradona, Cruyff from you. According to your logoc, he had more UCL goals, more UCL trophies, more international trophies, better career than these two yet never on the same level.

 

[Judoman]

OK, refuse the conversation then. I accept perfectly the position where you refuse to compare individuals because football is a team sport and a lot of factors are to be considered. But what goes for Ronaldo, same goes for Messi.

Talent wise, Ronaldo is not in the same tier as Messi. But talent isn't everything.

Did i refuse the conversation? You're doing it again, ignoring the facts. If you want to have a serious conversations about it, than acknowledge all facts from all angles.

And yes talent isn't everything, that's why you don't ignore things like coaches, team mates, stats,..

 

[Andresito]

Read properly.

I said he has an edge in some areas compared to Messi. For fucks sake. Read properly.

Who has more goals in CL? Fucking Ronaldo by far. So, ergo, he has an age in a very important area compared to Messi!

It's absurd to argue with blind fans.

Haven't followed the discussion at all.

But Messi has 15 goals fewer with 27 less games played.

 

[serghei]

No need to hide it. I want to hear reasons why Muller is not on the level of Maradona, Cruyff from you. According to your logoc, he had more UCL goals, more UCL trophies, more international trophies, better career than these two yet never on the same level.

I do not comment on footballers I didn't see. I've seen Ronaldo and Messi play almost all their career, and in my opinion, neither is objectively better than the other. There are some things one is better than the other at.

I like Messi more, with Ronaldo close second.

The rivalry, from the fans perspective, is composed of 3 categories. Messi fanboys, Ronaldo fanboys, and people who actually appreciate both players and differentiate between them based on taste, without diminishing what the other has achieved.

 

[Batistuta9]

No need to hide it. I want to hear reasons why Muller is not on the level of Maradona, Cruyff from you. According to your logoc, he had more UCL goals, more UCL trophies, more international trophies, better career than these two yet never on the same level.

I'm starting to wonder why gerd Muller isn't in people's top 10 of all time. The guy has won everything at both club and international level plus his goalscoring record is almost a goal a game.

If you argue that he is just a goalscorer, that's pretty much what CR7 has been since he moved to Madrid.