Lionel Messi - v7

[KingLeo10]

Expecting that many wins is harsh, but Barca have only made the SFs twice since 12-13.

In those QF defeats Leo has mostly been average-terrible on an individual level. Was not a case of him playing well and the team letting him down.

Atletico 13-14
Atletico 15-16
Juventus 16-17
Roma 17-18
Bayern 19-20

He has ZERO goals in those 10 matches. So bad I had to use Wikipedia to confirm it was not my memory deceiving me.

I already mentioned AM and Roma...Bayern we were overmatched from top to bottom. Juventus he tried and failed.

My problem with Roma and AM is lack of effort, as I clearly mentioned. Still, we realistically only had a chance in 15-16 of CL if we progressed in those years. 13-14 RM would have beaten us. Same with 16/17 or 17/18 RM.

 

[BarcaOG]

No one is counting Messi's olympic gold...because it's a mickey mouse competition.

lol, that's a poor comparison, and it shows you're running out of excuses. the olympics are not FIFA-run. you cant even field players above a certain age with some exceptions. its not Association Football.

CR's portugal beat Virgil van Dijks holland to win the nations league. when Spain was eliminated from that competition AS, Marca and Sport were very upset. it might not be the EURO or the WC, but its something, and it matters.

 

[DonAK]

Can we talk about the managers Messi had versus CR too?

 

[KingLeo10]

AS, Marca and Sport were very upset

You say I'm looking for excuses and try to justify the value of a competition with what AS, Marca, and Sport think.

Clown show.

 

[DonAK]

AS, Marca and Sport will be upset even if Spain loses a friendly tournament. Sounds like someone who doesn't follow the Spanish press and how they operate.

 

[BarcaOG]

Nah, what you're basically doing today is working overtime as CR7's lawyer. It's fine to pick apart Messi's flaws/failures but you can't expect us to buy your neutrality when you don't do the same for CR7

CR has been inconsistent as a league player and id be the first to say he probably depends more on teammates who can set up chances for him than messi does. he is not flawless, far from it. but when it comes to the CL, he is and has been better than messi for almost 10 years now.

messi cant be both the best player ever AND part of a team that gets humiliated year after year. you cant have it both ways.

 

[KingLeo10]

CR has been inconsistent as a league player and id be the first to say he probably depends more on teammates who can set up chances for him than messi does. he is not flawless, far from it. but when it comes to the CL, he is and has been better than messi for almost 10 years now.

messi cant be both the best player ever AND part of a team that gets humiliated year after year. you cant have it both ways.

I'm not saying Messi is the best player ever. Are you dense or can you not read?

 

[Judoman]

Can we talk about the managers Messi had versus CR too?

Yeah i mentioned this but looks like it's not an issue

 

[BarcaOG]

You say I'm looking for excuses and try to justify the value of a competition with what AS, Marca, and Sport think.

Clown show.

lol, okay, so apparently the only competitions that matter are the WC, EURO/copa america and the CL. well, again, and we return to this over and over, even if we go by that, messi doesnt cut it and in fact has a record of failure. that doesnt help your case one bit. please explain to me why messi is somehow to be excused for the 0-3 at juve, the 0-3 at rome, the 4-0 at anfield and the 8-2 to bayern. barcelona could lose 10-0 and you'd still think messi is above criticism. that's a farce.

 

[ebc_99]

CR has been inconsistent as a league player and id be the first to say he probably depends more on teammates who can set up chances for him than messi does. he is not flawless, far from it. but when it comes to the CL, he is and has been better than messi for almost 10 years now.

messi cant be both the best player ever AND part of a team that gets humiliated year after year. you cant have it both ways.

Ronaldo only has 1 job, score goals. If all Messi had to do was finish chances created by his teammates then we would have 6 or 7 Champions Leagues. Ronaldo's job is much easier to do which is why Messi gets a lot more recognition from the football world because they know how impressive it is to be the best goalscorer and the most creative player at the same time.

 

[ebc_99]

lol, okay, so apparently the only competitions that matter are the WC, EURO/copa america and the CL. well, again, and we return to this over and over, even if we go by that, messi doesnt cut it and in fact has a record of failure. that doesnt help your case one bit. please explain to me why messi is somehow to be excused for the 0-3 at juve, the 0-3 at rome, the 4-0 at anfield and the 8-2 to bayern. barcelona could lose 10-0 and you'd still think messi is above criticism. that's a farce.

Ronaldo played like crap at the Euro's in 2016, and missed 110 minutes of the final, how does that prove anything over Messi?

 

[KingLeo10]

Yeah i mentioned this but looks like it's not an issue

Having Guardiola for 4 years is not the same as having SAF for 6, Mou for 3, Ancelotti for 2, and ZZ for 3. It's not THE DECISIVE factor in the grand scheme of things but it's funny people just sweep that aside and cartwheel to "but but humiliations" as their default setting.

 

[Tackle]

I already mentioned AM and Roma...Bayern we were overmatched from top to bottom. Juventus he tried and failed.

My problem with Roma and AM is lack of effort, as I clearly mentioned. Still, we realistically only had a chance in 15-16 of CL if we progressed in those years. 13-14 RM would have beaten us. Same with 16/17 or 17/18 RM.

Some matches he simply did not try, others he did and was still mediocre. Cannot pick out one good performance from those matches.

We were in with a chance to win in all those years except 17/18 and this season.

18/19 we almost won. 16/17 we easily dispatch Monaco in the semi-final. 13/14 against Chelsea in the semis we'd be favourites. The Clasico finals would be any man's game regardless of form. Our fans really like to sell the past 5 seasons short sometimes. It was only this season when everything fell apart.

 

[KingLeo10]

I've come to the conclusion that some of this "fanbase" have become sadomasochists.

"Humiliation" is like half the verbiage I see around here.

We get it. Barca have been terrible in the CL some years. Messi terrible in this year's elimination and some eliminations before that. But "lol humiliations" without looking at any nuance or structural issues outside of Messi and even the team at large is just baffling.

 

[KingLeo10]

Some matches he simply did not try, others he did and was still mediocre. Cannot pick out one good performance from those matches.

We were in with a chance to win in all those years except 17/18 and this season.

18/19 we almost won. 16/17 we easily dispatch Monaco in the semi-final. 13/14 against Chelsea in the semis we'd be favourites. The Clasico finals would be any man's game regardless of form. Our fans really like to sell the past 5 seasons short sometimes. It was only this season when everything fell apart.

You would think that, being an EV fan.

We have been nowhere close to a powerhouse since 15/16.