Lionel Messi - v7

[JamDav1982]

Messi legacy is fine.

It will take a small hit if goes to EPL and doesn?t dominate though.

 

[fergus90]

Iirc, you are from Spain, right?

If you are, I have a news for you.
No one in the world cares for Copa del rey and Spanish supercopa titles.

The only titles that count are World cup, Euros/Copa America and leagues.

But then, 1 CL is worth like 5 leagues.

So, you can't say: Messi has more la ligas, that's the same as CLs.

Cl is the most important trophy in a club sport.
No amount of La ligas where trophies are won in matches against Mickey Mouse teams can change that.

If you measure who played more beautiful: Messi
If you count who won more biggest trophies: Cr7 6:3, the double amount, with his strong direct influence in all titles.

Nope, the league title is the most fundamental title in your country first and foremost, CL second. Secondly it doesn't matter if some person from outside the country says it doesn't matter about your domestic cup, fans of that club will still be elated they won it and will rightly celebrate.

 

[blaugrana1987]

No I am disagreeing they are ?thriving? in a sporting aspect when had two CL last 16 exits and not near favourite for next one.

You are overplaying them on that.

Sporting aspect as in : they have good, young project with great coach. I don't think they will be winning next CL for sure, but 1-2 good additions to the squad and they are all but winning double 100%, and you would still say they would be one of favorites for CL. On the other hand we are scrambling to stop Messi go, because he has been cheat code for this team for so many years (financial as well) + can't buy shit because we are literally broke.

We haven't been since 2016, and we haven't won CL since 2015 (when we could have lost it as well, had it not been for Messi BREAKING Bayern Munich like that), so you could say our spiorting project has been abysmal considering our core + money we spent.

 

[Rory]

Do you know that Pep's Barca didn't play against physical teams?
And when they did, they lost almost all ties:
2009 Chelsea
2010 Inter
2012 Chelsea

Also, there was no Italians back then due to calciopoli scandal (Juve) and bankruptcy of their sponsors (the fall of Milan).

Bayern was the weakest ever during early Pep, isn't it?
Bayern and Germans who won 4:0 against Messi's Argentina in 2010, 1:0 in 2014, 7:0 with Bayern in 2013, 8:2 in 2020.

It works both ways.
Peps-Messis Barca shined when there was no Italians and Bayern in KO matches.
When they returned after 2011, Messi won 1 in 9 years.

You see, it works both ways.

There are ifs on both sides.

You can't put ifs only on the side of RM's, Cr7's and Portugal's titles.
And say that everything with Messi was a pure magic.
I mean you can, but that is not objective then.

Ironic because that's what you're doing. Saying we won trophies with luck and ignoring the luck Real Madrid had. Ronaldo has been better the last 5 years in UCL as a whole, before that Messi was better for the 5 years. I'm happy admitting both have had their fair share of luck, weak opponents in certain games etc. What you were doing was only showing that side of things for Messi.

2010 inter win a treble and then we win the UCL the next year. Doesn't support your "no italians story".

2011 we beat a very physical Mourinho Real Madrid. Again omitting facts to suit your opinions. It's not objective. You refuse to see middle ground/grey areas.

 

[JamDav1982]

I agree. RM has had slight edge in Ronaldo + team + coach in CL, and absolutely massive in terms of actually doing business and financial aspects which board is responsible for.

Not sure what that agreed with but keep posting same thing!

 

[MagIX]

Both are focal points of attack.

Ronaldo has more assists as well even if team is not built to get him
On ball and create as much as Barca is for Messi.

Messi couldn?t lead an attack on break and with balls into box the way Ronaldo has.

Excuses are to make out Messi does all Ronaldo does and more. He doesn?t.

Excuse are to make out Cr does all Messi does and more. He doesn't.

 

[JamDav1982]

Excuse are to make out Cr does all Messi does and more. He doesn't.

Who had said he does?

You making up strawman arguments to then argue against?

Different players and Ronaldo top CL player of all time so far.

 

[KingLeo10]

I sometimes really wonder why is BBZ supporting Barca? He obviously thinks Ronaldo is superior to Messi, he also doesn't rate Xavi or Iniesta as high as rest of us are. Furthermore, La Masia is totally overrated according to him. He also prefers physical way of playing and not the one implemented by Cruyff. Dude you actually dislike everything Barca stands for. What the hall are you doing in this forum?

He is narrative driven. It's either egomania or compulsive. I don't know which.

When it's turn to shit on Pep, Messi becomes a "cheat code" in BBZ's own words and he writes a 10,000 word essay on how Barca are nothing without Messi.

When it's turn to shit on Messi, he becomes a hype product whose recent failures (16-20) in the CL are emphasized in relation to CR7's performances in the same time frame, while ignoring Messi's peak from 09-12 and 14-15 where he was top scorer all 5 times and indisputably better than CR7 in the competition. If BBZ's point is that CR7 is the better player to have to win CL, then there's not many arguments even here, I'd say. I've said time and again more ways to score is more important in CL. Messi's peak performances are above CR7's peak performances in CL, though.

It's sort of like R10 versus say a Robben or Lewandowski (not quite as the talent gap is wider here than it is between Messi and CR7). The latter two have better CL numbers but that doesn't mean R10's CL performances at his peak were not a cut above.

As always, the narrative driven bot picks an agenda and contradicts his own posts to force all "statistics" (selectively and deliberately chosen) to suit that agenda.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Not sure what that agreed with but keep posting same thing!

I am agreeing Ronaldo has been better since they won first CL with Real, but I also think their entire squad was better in CL + coach. I also think their board outperformed ours with transfer dealings, coach hiring (Zidane 3xUCLs) and just general way of doing business, hence making it easier for Ronaldo to show that difference.

Where I think difference in La Liga has been is that Messi was literally 1 for 1 to score/assist in La Liga ever since he came here thus being our "cheat code", which is much harder to replicate in knock out stages and one stupid game can cost you even if you are massive favorites (like us in 2016).

 

[ItachiXXX]

Iirc, you are from Spain, right?

If you are, I have a news for you.
No one in the world cares for Copa del rey and Spanish supercopa titles.

The only titles that count are World cup, Euros/Copa America and leagues.

But then, 1 CL is worth like 5 leagues.

So, you can't say: Messi has more la ligas, that's the same as CLs.

Cl is the most important trophy in a club sport.
No amount of La ligas where trophies are won in matches against Mickey Mouse teams can change that.

If you measure who played more beautiful: Messi
If you count who won more biggest trophies: Cr7 6:3, the double amount, with his strong direct influence in all titles.

Pique >>> Maldin, right ?
I love when people using Team Trophies when they're pushing there agenda and now suddenly a league is not important and yet all of the top players playing almost all the league games. And why it's a big deal in football world what Maradona did in Napoli, nobody cares about league anyway. Or maybe league is not important for you because it doesn't fit the agenda 😆

 

[MagIX]

If you measure who played more beautiful: Messi
If you count who won more biggest trophies: Cr7 6:3, the double amount, with his strong direct influence in all titles.

Gattuso has 1 WC and 2 CL.... much better that Ronaldhino, Totti, Ronaldo,...

 

[blaugrana1987]

CL is where differences are very small, and you can get KOd very easily, like we have been in 2016 and 2019, both times were our path to final was practically "safe" and we were main favorites. Winning these two suddenly changes entire thing, and against Liverpool, had we gone to win it, people would have hailed Messi's performance in home leg that literally pushed us to finals like the one against Bayern in 2015. Alas, wasn't meant to be.

 

[ItachiXXX]

I sometimes really wonder why is BBZ supporting Barca? He obviously thinks Ronaldo is superior to Messi, he also doesn't rate Xavi, Iniesta or Pep as high as the rest of us are. Furthermore, La Masia is totally overrated according to him. He also prefers physical way of playing and not the one implemented by Cruyff. Dude you actually dislike everything Barca stands for. What the hall are you doing in this forum?

I think he enjoy debating and writing essays. I won't be surprised if he's in other sports forum debating basketball, baseball, tennis, boxing etc etc

 

[JamDav1982]

I am agreeing Ronaldo has been better since they won first CL with Real, but I also think their entire squad was better in CL + coach. I also think their board outperformed ours with transfer dealings, coach hiring (Zidane 3xUCLs) and just general way of doing business, hence making it easier for Ronaldo to show that difference.

Where I think difference in La Liga has been is that Messi was literally 1 for 1 to score/assist in La Liga ever since he came here thus being our "cheat code", which is much harder to replicate in knock out stages and one stupid game can cost you even if you are massive favorites (like us in 2016).

If La liga is better barometer than hard to argue that Real were better team in those years.

Real and Ronaldo in particular has been much more clutch in CL than Messi/Barca. Some luck throw in but Barca had that as well.

Barca too often let their performances drop in CL. The whole team including Messi.

 

[MagIX]

Pique >>> Maldin, right ?
I love when people using Team Trophies when they're pushing there agenda and now suddenly a league is not important and yet all of the top players playing almost all the league games. And why it's a big deal in football world what Maradona did in Napoli, nobody cares about league anyway. Or maybe league is not important for you because it doesn't fit the agenda 😆

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