Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2

[Temptation]

Nah its way easier in Brazil / Argentinia than for P.... one Euro > one WC

This is definitely true. Historically Argentina are an international powerhouse.


Ronaldo is a bit cursed that he's Portugese coz he plays for a national team with a considerably weaker pool than the powerhouses.


Messi has also played with shit Argentine teams but he's lucky that he finally found a very cohesive and strong unit while he still had some magic left in the tank. Argentina found the magic combination of the perfect personnel and the perfect motivator for them in Scaloni. People will say Argentina NT doesn't have any big names but actual good players with team spirit is way more important than flashy big name wankers like Paul Pogba. Argentina had one of the most clutch players of this generation in Angel Di Maria who has a penchant for turning up in the biggest games. ADM definitely aided Messi in big international games. This Argentina NT is perfect for Messi. The team does all the dirty work, keeps it simple and they have Messi responsible for the magic and output in the final third. Some clutch individual brilliance from ADM and co to help Messi. The cohesion and team spirit was immense. No ego tussles. Messi is the clear main man and every teammate loves and respects him.


This Argentina team is a blessing for Messi!


Ronaldo is unlucky because he never had a world champion level team when he was Ronaldo. Only towards the end of his career when he was heavily declining did he get a good generation of players thriving but by then Ronaldo was a bit shite himself. Things could still have worked using Ronaldo as a poacher if Portugal had a decent coach but they stuck with a dinosaur.


Ronaldo's international career is still a mammoth success in my eyes because of the longevity, consistency, records and the Euro win. Winning a Euro with Portugal is a huge huge achievement.

It's unfair to expect a player to win a World Cup with a nation like Portugal. I don't think you can diss him for that at all. You can criticise his poor return in WC knockouts though. Even if it's a small sample size he should have done a bit better atleast but I still don't think it's enough to be a red mark on his CV.

 

[Temptation]

BUT.....


History doesn't care about these reasons and logical outlook on things of the past.

We don't know how the CL will age in 50 years but we definitely know that a World Cup win will be held in high esteem.


It won't be surprising if Messi's legacy ages better.


What can I say? Ronaldo was a little cursed to be born in Portugal. 1 thing about the World Cup is that we rarely see non-powerhouse nations or underdogs winning it.

 

[Horatio]

BUT.....


History doesn't care about these reasons and logical outlook on things of the past.

We don't know how the CL will age in 50 years but we definitely know that a World Cup win will be held in high esteem.


It won't be surprising if Messi's legacy ages better.


What can I say? Ronaldo was a little cursed to be born in Portugal. 1 thing about the World Cup is that we rarely see non-powerhouse nations or underdogs winning it.

Ronaldo cursed to be born in Portugal?

That’s what they said about Messi and picking Argentina….until he won it. Before was said if he had picked spain would have won a few prizes.

Ronaldo could’ve easily had 3 Euro Cups. Greece lol…

Wasn’t this Portugal hailed by many as favs to win the WC? They probably were with France if hadn’t faced Morocco. They likely would have much easier time playing likes of France, England, Brazil than that Morocco.

 

[Andresito]

Too much copium in here.

 

[Temptation]

Ronaldo cursed to be born in Portugal?

That’s what they said about Messi…until he won it.

Messi was kinda cursed too but ultimately he got the perfect team and management to have one last go at the WC towards the end of his career. He should have won more Copas with Argentina which is not even up for debate.

It's ridiculous to expect a country like Portugal to win a World Cup.

Could’ve easily had 3 Euro Cups. Greece lol…

Ridiculous take. Portugal never had enough in their talent pool to compete with the actual powerhouses. They won the Euros which is a big achievement. Greece winning it has nothing to do with this(it's an even bigger achievement for the Greek NT to win it).

 

[Horatio]

Messi was kinda cursed too but ultimately he got the perfect team and management to have one last go at the WC towards the end of his career. He should have won more Copas with Argentina which is not even up for debate.

It's ridiculous to expect a country like Portugal to win a World Cup.



Ridiculous take. Portugal never had enough in their talent pool to compete with the actual powerhouses. They won the Euros which is a big achievement. Greece winning it has nothing to do with this(it's an even bigger achievement for the Greek NT to win it).

Yes as you say it’s an incredible achievement for Greece….because they are considered underdog lol.

 

[Temptation]

Current Portugal has a good squad but CR7 is crap now so......


They also stuck with that dinosaur coach for the WC.


They were never winning the 22 WC lol. With a better coach maybe.....

 

[Horatio]

Current Portugal has a good squad but CR7 is crap now so......


They also stuck with that dinosaur coach for the WC.


They were never winning the 22 WC lol. With a better coach maybe.....

This is all aftertiming. Portugal with France were considered favourites. At time people said all the usual powerhouses are not up to their usual self.

I am willing to bet you that if portugal had won it in no way would you have expressed surprisement. You would have said “well, it was to be expected. Only France had their act together really and could’ve stopped them”. Or something along those lines.

Not saying I expected them to win it but “them never winning it” is speaking after fact.

 

[CatalinR10]

So in his Euro win , CR gets mediocre teams in the knockout stages (which were ranked anywhere around the 20th spot Fifa wise ) , gets to play France who wasn't the France it is in last years , gets to play only some minutes due to injury but the team still wins it without him.

Got to play with a full stacked team with stars and talents in last years. Iirc Portugal was 3rd most valuable team after France and England going into the WC compared to Messi's 7th.

Got to play with Figo , Deco , Rui Costa when he was younger.

Saying that he was unlucky to be born in Portugal is just delusion and unseen levels of copium.

 

[Temptation]

This is all aftertiming. Portugal with France were considered favourites. At time people said all the usual powerhouses are not up to their usual self.

I am willing to bet you that if portugal had won it in no way would you have expressed surprisement. You would have said “well, it was to be expected. Only France had their act together really.” Or something along those lines.

Argentina were coming into the tournament with a big winning streak, all time high morale, a Copa trophy and Finalssima thing against Italy.


They were definitely one of the favourites. Even before the cup, many pundits said this.


Portugal had a strong looking team on paper but had a dinosaur coach and a washed up main man in 2022.


2022 CR7 wouldn't win the Qatar WC with the 2022 Argentina team if you swapped him in for Messi keeping everything else the same. CR7 is finished at the highest level. Been so since his second United stint.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

BUT.....


History doesn't care about these reasons and logical outlook on things of the past.

We don't know how the CL will age in 50 years but we definitely know that a World Cup win will be held in high esteem.


It won't be surprising if Messi's legacy ages better.


What can I say? Ronaldo was a little cursed to be born in Portugal. 1 thing about the World Cup is that we rarely see non-powerhouse nations or underdogs winning it.

Yeah dude but i have to admit that the Portugal since 2021 is able to win a WC but Ronaldo's prime is over + he destroyed his best chance last year by doing some stupid things (uruguay match)

all in all i think he can be happy to be the leader of Portugal's first int. title in history of Portugal

 

[Windhook]

Immature talk again. Why don't you take this talk to CR7 thread? I know why - because hardly anyone would pay attention on monologues there. Trolling/attention seeking disgusts me. You have something personal on someone go PM, don't waste our time.

 

[Horatio]

Argentina were coming into the tournament with a big winning streak, all time high morale, a Copa trophy and Finalssima thing against Italy.


They were definitely one of the favourites. Even before the cup, many pundits said this.


Portugal had a strong looking team on paper but had a dinosaur coach and a washed up main man in 2022.


2022 CR7 wouldn't win the Qatar WC with the 2022 Argentina team if you swapped him in for Messi keeping everything else the same. CR7 is finished at the highest level. Been so since his second United stint.

Argentina were one of my personal fav. I bet on them to win. But the odd I got for it definitely says they weren’t according to bookies. Odd did take a small dive about a few weeks before wc started. Brazil had better odd if i recall? Werent they also favourites according to pundits?

 

[Temptation]

Immature talk again. Why don't you take this talk to CR7 thread? I know why - because hardly anyone would pay attention on monologues there. Trolling/attention seeking disgusts me. You have something personal on someone go PM, don't waste our time.

How is this trolling/attention seeking?


No insults. No name-calling. No spamming.


Explained all my points in great detail. All the opinions are nuanced. It's fine if you disagree. That's the point of discussing Football.


If you think this is trolling you need help.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Immature talk again. Why don't you take this talk to CR7 thread? I know why - because hardly anyone would pay attention on monologues there. Trolling/attention seeking disgusts me. You have something personal on someone go PM, don't waste our time.

Youre overreacting dude, its a normal discussion, no insults some something. KL has the opinion you need to win a WC to get into the GOAT discussion and we explained him why you cant expect from every player from any nation to win it, funnily that was the argument from the Messi fans before the WC win but it is what it is