soul24rage
Senior Member
the 12th men are the Argentine fans supporting himtbf, Siunaldo had to play against 12 men all the time.....while Leo could play with 12 men
if only Siunaldo had the fans supporting him like the GOAT has
Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
if only Siunaldo had the fans supporting him like the GOAT has
KingLeo10
Senior Member
He didn't need the WC TROPHY to be GOAT.
Personally, for me, it wasn't that he won the trophy that totally crushed the competition (CR7) but rather the way he won it.
Of Argentina's 15 goals in the WC, Messi scored or assisted 10 of them.
Scored in every KO round.
Insane assists v Croatia and Netherlands in KOs.
5 in 5 in high-pressure penalties across both game time and shootouts.
He just dominated the World Cup at an age you're supposed to be retired.
If he had won the World Cup like he won the Copa yesterday, I honestly don't think he would have been called the GOAT by the media and nearly all pundits/managers etc. (he already was by many but not unanimously as he is these days).
So, the 2022 WC and his domination there was very, very important for making him a true immortal (beyond just the talent and club achievements).
Personally, for me, it wasn't that he won the trophy that totally crushed the competition (CR7) but rather the way he won it.
Of Argentina's 15 goals in the WC, Messi scored or assisted 10 of them.
Scored in every KO round.
Insane assists v Croatia and Netherlands in KOs.
5 in 5 in high-pressure penalties across both game time and shootouts.
He just dominated the World Cup at an age you're supposed to be retired.
If he had won the World Cup like he won the Copa yesterday, I honestly don't think he would have been called the GOAT by the media and nearly all pundits/managers etc. (he already was by many but not unanimously as he is these days).
So, the 2022 WC and his domination there was very, very important for making him a true immortal (beyond just the talent and club achievements).
Maradona37
Well-known member
Yes it's how you win.
For example, I always said he was better in 2014 and 2015 and 2016 than Ronaldo was in 2016. You can perform better and lose a tournament than someone who wins a tournament. Performances don't always equal winning.
And in 2022 he was superb. I don't put it on Maradona 1986 level but it's close. And one of the top three overall individual performances ever in a World Cup I would say alongside Maradona that year and Garrincha 1962. Maybe Pele 1970 could be included but like you say that was an amazing team. Zico 1982 could also be considered, and Puskas 1954.
For example, I always said he was better in 2014 and 2015 and 2016 than Ronaldo was in 2016. You can perform better and lose a tournament than someone who wins a tournament. Performances don't always equal winning.
And in 2022 he was superb. I don't put it on Maradona 1986 level but it's close. And one of the top three overall individual performances ever in a World Cup I would say alongside Maradona that year and Garrincha 1962. Maybe Pele 1970 could be included but like you say that was an amazing team. Zico 1982 could also be considered, and Puskas 1954.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
I agree. In terms of World Cup performances:
1) Maradona 86
2) Messi 2022 / Garrincha 62 / Pele 70
3) Zidane 06 (he was shit in 98 except for the final; in 06 he led France past Spain, Brazil, Portugal, and almost Italy).
Maradona37
Well-known member
Forgot Zidane yeah. Yes 1998 he wasn't good except the final, I remember it well. He was sent off in the group stage and missed the Paraguay game in round of 16 where Blanc scored a golden goal.
He was much better in 2006 though underwhelming in the group stage there too, but took right off in the knockouts as you say.
Ronaldo 2002 scored a lot of goals, but was past prime due to injuries and it was more of a team effort. And a rather weak World Cup in general. The German team they beat in the final were poor and had been humped 5-1 on home soil by England 6 months earlier.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
How many fans say "oh, Xavi was great, but he isn't a legend because he retired too late?" .
Maradona37
Well-known member
Cruyff of course could be considered for 1974. And Beckenbauer was top that year too. Gerd Muller is an underrated player as people think he was just a poacher when he actually had more to his game.
None on Maradona or Messi level I'd say, but deserve recognition for what are said to be great individual World Cups.
In Euros, Platini 1984 reigns supreme for a frankly incredible 9 goals in 5 games as France won the trophy.
None on Maradona or Messi level I'd say, but deserve recognition for what are said to be great individual World Cups.
In Euros, Platini 1984 reigns supreme for a frankly incredible 9 goals in 5 games as France won the trophy.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Platini is overlooked these days because of his horrendous tenure as UEFA chief.
But most of the managers/players who've seen both Platini and ZZ rate Platini as the best ever Frenchman.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Yeah he's a bellend and it affects his standing.
You know football well for sure - I have seen the same tendency - that French people especially and players in general rate Platini over Zidane. I'd probably agree, though Zidane was a childhood footballing idol of mine.
Maybe more controversial is that a lot of older Brazilian rate Garrincha above Pele. But I would suggest that is because Garrincha was more of a character and so fun to watch, Pele was better but Garrincha was such a genius too.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Opinion: Mbappe isn't as talented as Zidane and Platini.. Statistically he can beat them, and he can win more. But he's not as good at football. I don't even consider this a controversial view.
Who looked better?
Alotta emotions running around Pique's brain seeing that.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Mbappe is even less talented than CR7 who is easily the least talented player in football history's top 10-20
No wonder they need stats to back up their "claim".
Maradona37
Well-known member
I hate getting into arguments about Ronaldo.Mbappe is even less talented than CR7 who is easily the least talented player in football history's top 10-20
No wonder they need stats to back up their "claim".
The reason is, I feel the hype and worship around him is so great that it's taken as 'matter of fact' by some that he's a top 5 player of all time. Like social conditioning.
To me this overlooks so many legends from the past, as if he should just leapfrog them due to his goal record and fame.
But when you say these things, they gaslight you into thinking you are clueless.
Ronaldo would sneak into my top 10, just because I make concessions for his career and goal stats. If I was basing it on talent I wouldn't have him in the top 80-100 players ever and I am being serious.
Maradona37
Well-known member
As someone who has always liked the TMNT, Alvarez is Raphael there. Raph is the angry turtle and ironically Alvarez is probably by far the calmest of those four, lol.
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