Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2

[MontenegrinCuler]

His club career is underwhelming.

Wtf?
Btw, this is just official matches as we count them today. But back then "friendlies" had basically the same relevance that official matches do. And he has amazing stats in club friendlies against top european clubs of the time as well.

 

[Horatio]

Wtf?View attachment 11114
Btw, this is just official matches as we count them today. But back then "friendlies" had basically the same relevance that official matches do. And he has amazing stats in club friendlies against top european clubs of the time as well.

Should’ve played in Europe if were that strong.

Why did friendlies have same relevance as official match if I may ask?

 

[malvolio]

I think that argument gets overblown. Players train harder than ever before. But I think with better know-how and science players and keeper are better prepared on stopping them.

Football has become a game of margins.

Back in day clubs might not even bothered doing the analyses cause they figured too much hassle.

Now science behind any thing

Science my ass. Lots of donkeys running around and kicking a ball like they're plumbers. Keepers and wall are not sinking trough bluetooth mate. Put a fast ball on target and eventually you'll score. The main issue for today's players is getting the free-kick on target.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Celebrating like he finally won the World Cup.


SMH.

Celebrating these Mickey Mouse cups like big trophies as he realized there wont be any big trophies anymore without Di maria

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

Should’ve played in Europe if were that strong.

Why did friendlies have same relevance as official match if I may ask?

Most of Brazil's legendary players of the time actually played in South America back then, along with many other technically gifted monsters. It's really questionable whether European football was even stronger at the time. Hence, no questions over why he didn't play in Europe.

Friendlies had the same relevance in the sense they were taken seriously. Mostly because football back then was not just about trophies or competition. It was more about the beauty of game itself. And considering Pele was the most famous and the best footballer at the time by a margin, having him come to play against you meant big thing for any European club. Those matches usually had huge attendances because everybody wanted to watch Pele. And it was, of course, expected from the team to give its best to win against Pele. As a show of pride, more than as a success in terms of competition.

So, contrary to what most people think - Pele didnt have europeans open their legs against him in those friendlies. Also, it was not C teams that were playing in friendlies like today but best 11. So, essentially, even though people mostly overlook his goals in those friendlies that certainly shouldn't be the case. Everbody took those matches seriously.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Top 3 now.

Uf what a list

i remember the season 15/16 of la pulga

playing-wise a downgrade compared to his 14/15 season but freekick-wise he was insane, nearly every fk was dangerous

 

[Andresito]

It's weird because if you compare Pele to the rest of his era he's easily the best, relatively speaking. He was probably a couple of levels above the others from his time. A kind of dominance that you won't see today.

If you put prime Pele in today's football he'd most likely be pretty average. If you put Messi in that era it would probably be men v kids.

Now if you have teenager Pele reborn in modern football, and training like they do today, it will be a whole different question. Albeit a question that cannot be answered.

All in all to simplify it, in reality you are compared to the players you face. Pele obviously was incredibly talented but I've seen the WC games where 5 opponents are walking in defence as if they are Messi.

Put prime Pele and prime Messi side by side and there's only one winner.

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

Defo, I'm not arguing he was better than Messi. Messi is 1st, Pele 2nd. On my list.

 

[Horatio]

Most of Brazil's legendary players of the time actually played in South America back then, along with many other technically gifted monsters. It's really questionable whether European football was even stronger at the time. Hence, no questions over why he didn't play in Europe.

Friendlies had the same relevance in the sense they were taken seriously. Mostly because football back then was not just about trophies or competition. It was more about the beauty of game itself. And considering Pele was the most famous and the best footballer at the time by a margin, having him come to play against you meant big thing for any European club. Those matches usually had huge attendances because everybody wanted to watch Pele. And it was, of course, expected from the team to give its best to win against Pele. As a show of pride, more than as a success in terms of competition.

So, contrary to what most people think - Pele didnt have europeans open their legs against him in those friendlies. Also, it was not C teams that were playing in friendlies like today but best 11. So, essentially, even though people mostly overlook his goals in those friendlies that certainly shouldn't be the case. Everbody took those matches seriously.

Fair enough. The argument about Brazilian players playing in south america is fair. I would have to look more into that. I do think football has evolved tremendously over time.

Like andresito said, I question how Pele would do in Messi era. He would still be great player no doubt.

Anyway, I have to remind you I am not arguing Pele was a hack. Like I said, he likely occupies a spot in my top 5.

But for some peepz he is supposed to be best or close to best on simple merit of being only player that won 3 wc’s. But then if you look into it it paints a bit of different story. In that sense I think some overrate him. Also time has a funny way of creating a bigger myth than reality based on.

 

[MontenegrinCuler]

Defo, I'm not arguing he was better than Messi. Messi is 1st, Pele 2nd. On my list.

@Fati_Future_BallonDor Penaldo 3rd, why shocked

 

[Horatio]

Science my ass. Lots of donkeys running around and kicking a ball like they're plumbers. Keepers and wall are not sinking trough bluetooth mate. Put a fast ball on target and eventually you'll score. The main issue for today's players is getting the free-kick on target.

But maybe players have trouble getting on target because the angles are narrower. They have to put more spin on ball which if you fail to do will overshoot or undershoot ball easily. This is speculation but I think it is likely there are staff members on team and specialize in freekicks and know preferred way opponents take them and instruct and have players and keeper practice on how to build proper walls.

Now if you assume this to be likely not big leap to believe these “experts” are much better than what they were decades ago.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I think that argument gets overblown. Players train harder than ever before. But I think with better know-how and science players and keeper are better prepared on stopping them.

Nah. There are hardly any player, who can get the fk shot on target consistently these days. Less work for keepers.

 

[Andresito]

Nah. There are hardly any player, who can get the fk shot on target consistently these days. Less work for keepers.

Because the difficulty of the shots are increased. To beat GK you need power, not only placement. And to beat wall you need height. Too much power + height leads to missed target. The sweet spot is a lot more narrow now.

Like CRs freekicks. A successful shot is incredibly hard to save but the difficulty to manage that is so high so he misses a lot. That plus he sux at FKs.

 

[malvolio]

But maybe players have trouble getting on target because the angles are narrower. They have to put more spin on ball which if you fail to do will overshoot or undershoot ball easily. This is speculation but I think it is likely there are staff members on team and specialize in freekicks and now preferred way opponents take them. Also players and keeper likely better instructed on how to build a wall.

Then that would mean the players are more adept at taking them since they have more data on how to shoot, no?

The truth is that they are poor at taking them.

 

[Horatio]

Because the difficulty of the shots are increased. To beat GK you need power, not only placement. And to beat wall you need height. Too much power + height leads to missed target. The sweet spot is a lot more narrow now.

Like CRs freekicks. A successful shot is incredibly hard to save but the difficulty to manage that is so high so he misses a lot. That plus he sux at FKs.

Yes. Same as what I said in my last post. Good call.