Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2

MontenegrinCuler

MontenegrinCuler

Well-known member
Horatio said:
Fair enough. The argument about Brazilian players playing in south america is fair. I would have to look more into that. I do think football has evolved tremendously over time.

Like andresito said, I question how Pele would do in Messi era. He would still be great player no doubt.

Anyway, I have to remind you I am not arguing Pele was a hack. Like I said, he could possibly occupy a spot in my top 5.

But for some peepz he is supposed to be best or close to best on simple merit of being only player that won 3 wc’s. But then if you look into it it paints a bit of different story. In that sense I think some overrate him. Also time has a funny way of creating a bigger myth than reality based on.
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I think it's pointless arguing he had the individual quality to make success in any era. He had massive vision and was a prolific goalscorer at the same time, with the traditional brazilian flair that he's basically the inventor of. He was strong and had football IQ, but he also had the mentality to make something out of his talent.

Football evolves of course. In 20 or 30 football will be harder to play than now, and there will probably be people who will put all kinds of bums shoulder to shoulder with Messi because Messi's era was easier. That certain someone will make success in a harder era and be a fantastic footballer, maybe make some incredible stats but all of us who have watched Messi will know he's still untouchable. For some players, it doesn't matter what kinds of complex tactics or tricky defenders you put in front of them. They will find a way out and make success.
 
Don Juan Laporta Estruch

Don Juan Laporta Estruch

Well-known member
soul24rage said:
Top 3 now.

GY8k2bjbAAMRbQU
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4 Barca legends in the list.

Special shout-out to Don :koeman2: who generally gets criminally underrated.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
Also look at players like Lamine, Salah, Rodrygo who have really good shot in open play. It’s not like football all of a sudden is devoid of talented shooters.
Why would these guys be all of a sudden very poor at scoring fks? Why be this talented at shooting ball and then fluke fks?

So not unthinkable scoring fks much more difficult now.
 
Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Liverpool even used to have a throw-in consultant which led to them very rarely losing the ball and were statistically far better at retaining possession from throws. Now I would imagine free kicks are far more popular to want to master and market for consultants/coaches is even higher than a niche thing like throws.

Defending free kicks is a whole lot of more factors than shooting. It's easier to generalize. Wall placement, wall quantity, placement of GK are all things that an expert can say "do this and do that". Shooting FKs is all about pure talent and practice. Don't need an expert to say "bro put it in the corner"
 
MontenegrinCuler

MontenegrinCuler

Well-known member
Horatio said:
Also look at players like Lamine, Salah, Rodrygo who have really good shot in open play. It’s not like football all of a sudden is devoid of talented shooters.
Why would these guys be all of a sudden very poor at scoring fks? Why be this talented at shooting ball and then fluke fks?

So not unthinkable scoring fks much more difficult now.
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I think Lamine is actually good at FKs. Just sucks Flick gives Raphinha a chance over him.
 
G

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Andresito said:
Because the difficulty of the shots are increased. To beat GK you need power, not only placement. And to beat wall you need height. Too much power + height leads to missed target. The sweet spot is a lot more narrow now.
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What's your point? This was always the case. What difficulty has increased? Things you describe is entirely a matter of player skill and there are no highly skilled fk takers currently.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
Gnidrologist said:
What's your point? This was always the case. What difficulty has increased? Things you describe is entirely a matter of player skill and there are no highly skilled fk takers currently.
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Tighter angles. Nohomo. So if player takes fk from say 20 meters according to science best to place wall x meters ahead of goal it as it demands strongest curvature on ball. Just lazy example. Could be more things. Could be bull.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
Gnidrologist said:
What tighter angles? Has the wall distance rule changed to allow it closer?
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There is a limit to how close wall can be to wall. But not how far.

Maybe timing of jump has improved. Maybe height of jump has improved. Placement of tallest players. Angle of the wall. Positioning of keeper. Reaction time of keeper. Keepers tend to be more athletic than before.

Then I hear you ask: what do some factors have to do with player not even shooting on target. Player knows has to be more precise on hitting ball and with proper strength to stand chance at scoring.
 
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Alik

Alik

Moderator
Have walls and keepers improved so much in the last years that United has not managed to score a single free kick since Ronaldo left more than two years ago?

Coincidentally, Barça scoring free kicks have dried up as soon as Messi left the club. 1 free kick goal since he left?

PSG hasn't scored a free kick goal since Messi left either.

So maybe the new players are not good at them.

Andresito said:
How are the possibilities of training on free time nowadays for pros? I remember reading clubs are very careful about allowing players to have shooting practices outside training regime.

Imagine the strain on the quad if players stayed an hour after practice each day just shooting and shooting.
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That could be an explanation.
 
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