Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi

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Valdario

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If Messi has such an influence, then why are PSG a worse team with him than without him so far this season?

because pochettino hasn't found a way to implement messi in his best position

who the fuck hasn't figured out that messi can't play as a false nine/right winger anymore? well, pochettino exists

doesn't help the fact that paredes & verratti were injured quite a lot throughout the season so he was stuck with a midfield consisting of danilo, wijnaldum (the worst player i've seen so far this season) and ander herrera

that's far worse than what ronaldo got in united with pogba, bruno fernandes and fred
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
messi is not all about goals, when will you guys stop comparing a poacher to a playmaker with simply goals? he'll always be the better player

when ronaldo doesn't score a goal it's a disasterclass, but messi has other ways to influence a game

i can't believe people still buy into this shit that he's a better player than messi

It's not this one-sided. Current Messi forces the entire team to play at his pace, which is slow. Constantly dropping deep to the DM area, walking around, demanding the ball in static central positions with two banks of four in front of him and then spraying balls. His low workrate prevents him from participating in counter-attacks as well. So Messi often "influences" the game to the team's own detriment.

You can't really play a crossing-heavy game with Messi on the pitch, for example, is what I'm saying. He attacks the box very rarely, so it is minus one player there. When there is a loss of the ball when he is in his 10 area, he does not attempt to press the opposition, which makes it easy to counter for the opposing team. If the midfielders bomb forward to attack (because he does not attack the box) while he arrives late in a second wave, when there is a turnover it is always a chance for the opposing team to organize a dangerous counter.

Now add Neymar who has resembling habits and you have a tactical nightmare.
 
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malvolio

Senior Member
The worst EPL teams will be worse than some of the better French teams but team for team the EPL is vastly superior across the board.

Messi is struggling to score in worse league. Simple logic.

You are wrong on sole striker... had some of his better games with likes of Cavani and others coming central. He has been worse since Ragnick tried to play him as sole striker.

Poch tried Messi as false nine a few times anyway and it didnt work.

Messi never needed to be a striker to get goals. So poor argument.

Put Norwich vs Bordeaux and you wouldn't bet your house against the French winning. Or St Ettiene vs Leeds. Or Watford vs Lorient.

At the bottom the difference is not there, if any.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Put Norwich vs Bordeaux and you wouldn't bet your house against the French winning. Or St Ettiene vs Leeds. Or Watford vs Lorient.

At the bottom the difference is not there, if any.

Nah dont agree and the argument is across the league anyway.

Leeds have Spanish, Brazilian, English internationals for example.

When top coaches/players speak about EPL and never experienced a league that is such a challenge from top to bottom I will go with them on this one.

Everton could get relegated with the English, Dutch, Brazilian internationals across their team.

Tough league not the farmers stuff.
 
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Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
because pochettino hasn't found a way to implement messi in his best position

who the fuck hasn't figured out that messi can't play as a false nine/right winger anymore? well, pochettino exists

messi doesnt have a position since 2016, he will play a free role whether if Poche likes it or not
 

Valdario

Member
It's not this one-sided. Current Messi forces the entire team to play at his pace, which is slow. Constantly dropping deep to the DM area, walking around, demanding the ball in static central positions with two banks of four in front of him and then spraying balls. His low workrate prevents him from participating in counter-attacks as well. So Messi often "influences" the game to the team's own detriment.

You can't really play a crossing-heavy game with Messi on the pitch is what I'm saying. He attacks the box very rarely, so it is minus one player there. When there is a loss of the ball when he is in his 10 area, he does not attempt to press the opposition, which makes it easy to counter for the opposing team. If the midfielders bomb forward to attack (because he does not attack the box) while he arrives late in a second wave, when there is a turnover it is always a chance for the opposing team to organize a dangerous counter.

Now add Neymar who has resembling habits and you have a tactical nightmare.

noone forces psg to play at a slow pace, it's players like danilo, gueye, wijnaldum, herrera etc who can't pass the ball to save their lives, that's why messi has to drop deep, because other than verratti noone knows how to progress the ball further in the opposition field

you can play the crossing game as well with messi, maybe even more efficient, because messi always drags around 2-3 defenders with him wherever he goes

once you play faster and up the tempo with switching sides and you have a good crosser of the ball on the other side and mbappe swinging in the box, it's a completely different story

i think psg has no clear instructions what to do, it's basically give the ball to the front three and let them do what they want (they're not even capable of doing that, but that's another thing)
 

Rassvet

Well-known member
because pochettino hasn't found a way to implement messi in his best position

who the fuck hasn't figured out that messi can't play as a false nine/right winger anymore? well, pochettino exists

doesn't help the fact that paredes & verratti were injured quite a lot throughout the season so he was stuck with a midfield consisting of danilo, wijnaldum (the worst player i've seen so far this season) and ander herrera

that's far worse than what ronaldo got in united with pogba, bruno fernandes and fred

If Messi can't play as a false 9 or right winger then where can he play? There is no other spot for him in a 433. All that's left then is basically a second striker role in a 442 or 352 which are systems used sparingly these days by the top teams and generally not for possession football which wouldn't suit Messi either like the high pressing/intensity 442 Bayern used under Flick with Muller as the second striker.

Also, it's a bit ridiculous to mention Pogba as a good teammate of CR while ignoring Verratti for being injured too much when I'm pretty sure he has played more than Pogba this season.
 
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Valdario

Member
messi doesnt have a position since 2016, he will play a free role whether if Poche likes it or not

messi needs a striker upfront to be effective now, that's why suarez complemented him perfectly knowing when to make runs to drag defenders with him so that messi can launch into open space and score outside the box

mbappe is a different profile and he's more selfish, that's why messi rarely scores goals these days as he has no space to run into (he's heavily marked), but essentially he acts as a playmaker to feed mbappe with passes from deep positions
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
messi needs a striker upfront to be effective now, that's why suarez complemented him perfectly knowing when to make runs to drag defenders with him so that messi can launch into open space and score outside the box

mbappe is a different profile and he's more selfish, that's why messi rarely scores goals these days as he has no space to run into (he's heavily marked), but essentially he acts as a playmaker to feed mbappe with passes from deep positions

Messi didnt have striker at Barca last season and was as good as the season before once stopped sulking.
 

Valdario

Member
If Messi can't play as a false 9 or right winger then where can he play? There is no other spot for him in a 433. All that's left then is basically a second striker role in a 442 or 352 which are systems used sparingly these days by the top teams and generally not for possession football which wouldn't suit Messi either like the high pressing/intensity 442 Bayern used under Flick with Muller as the second striker.

Also, it's a bit ridiculous to mention Pogba as a good teammate of CR while ignoring Verratti for being injured too much when I'm pretty sure he has played more than Pogba this season.

well, he could play in his free role and exchange positions with neymar and mbappe all the time, but it doesn't help the team that neymar declined heavily after the injury he got

if he had another runner on the left wing to feed, it would be a different story - neymar hogs the ball too much and interferes with the space messi's in all the time, that's why the system doesn't work, there's not a clear role for anybody in the front three
 

Valdario

Member
Messi didnt have striker at Barca last season and was as good as the season before once stopped sulking.

barcelona and psg are two completely different teams with different types of players

i would guarantee that messi would play a lot better had he stayed this season with us, because he had a completely different role in our team than he has now in psg's team
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
barcelona and psg are two completely different teams with different types of players

i would guarantee that messi would play a lot better had he stayed this season with us, because he had a completely different role in our team than he has now in psg's team

Yes and you are one that brought up Messi and Suarez as a CF but last season without a CF at Barca he was more or less the same so Suarez point falls there.

He would play better at Barca as everyone at Barca would slow down to play game at his pace, give him ball any time he asks for it and make up a team that covers for him not pressing on the right.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
barcelona and psg are two completely different teams with different types of players

i would guarantee that messi would play a lot better had he stayed this season with us, because he had a completely different role in our team than he has now in psg's team

Liga is less physical and an environment he knows all too well. JamDav with some poor comparisons.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Liga is less physical and an environment he knows all too well. JamDav with some poor comparisons.

Nah it is great comparison and I agree with you Messi struggles with more physicality and faster paced league.

But do keep up... the one that compared Barca to PSG was not me initially.
 
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