Luis Enrique

Kasperroed

New member
About Pep again. People tend to forget that he struggled big time at his first year at Bayern. Yeah, he won the league, but Bundesliga last year was a joke, Dortmund had to deal with organizational issues and had loads of injuries and they really have a small team comparing nowadays requirements on the elite level. I tend to read Bayern's forum and majority fans were actually disappointed, because of the very high standards and of course because of the Bayerns status. It was not just because of the results, it was especially because they did not see any idea besides passing the ball and they were especially disappointed if they were somehow lucky to beat some minnows away 1-0 or 2-0.
yeah, Lucho is not Pep and et cetera, but i see similar things in here- no system, no ideas, no control, ugly, we do not dominate, we do not pres we are not Barca anymore, we won't win anything with that system, too many rotations, too many players in strange formations (Lahm as DM, anyone!) etc etc.
Lucho may not be the coach we need or maybe not good enough and not Pep, but then again, lets give him at least chance unlike Bayern fans that I referred.
In my opinion, the picture of Lucho is especially dark because we have Real madrid in comparison. We tend to forget how they struggled in transition and only live in the moment where madrid is playing beatifully and winning and we are in transition. The same old impatience and obsession with Madrid. Real Madrid was playing like crap until Christmas last year, but hey, Carlo is genius and the first rate.
You can't build anything when you are not willing to let some things go.

P.S And all this bring back Rijkaard thing, as ridiculous as it is: those who might fancy idea or think that Rijkaard was a good transitional coach may check the league table of Rijkaard's time after 10-15 matches of the season. Please do.

Great post!

I tend to agree with you. However, i do really struggle to see any improvements. I don't see, that this can possibly turn into something good. No matter how much time we give Lucho, if he continues with this, we will never succeed.

I am very happy about the fact that Lucho has tried the 3-4-3/3-5-2 formation. I truly believe it is the way to go for us now.

Defensive wise:
------------------ Bravo ------------------
-- Bartra -- Mascherano -- Mathieu --
Pedro --- Iniesta --- Busquets --- Alba
-------- Messi ------------ Neymar -------
----------------- Suarez -------------------

Offensive wise:
------------------ Bravo ------------------
-- Bartra -- Mascherano -- Mathieu --
---------------- Busquets ----------------
- Pedro --- Messi --- Iniesta --- Alba -
---------- Suarez ----- Neymar ---------

I don't know if the defence is good enough against strong opponents with Pedro, Iniesta and Alba who are not particularly good defensively. However, against weak opponents, this could work very well. Especially on counters it could work well due to the speed of Alba, Pedro, Messi, Suarez and Neymar, who, when we catch the ball, can run to the opponents goal in the matter of seconds.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
About Pep again. People tend to forget that he struggled big time at his first year at Bayern. Yeah, he won the league, but Bundesliga last year was a joke, Dortmund had to deal with organizational issues and had loads of injuries and they really have a small team comparing nowadays requirements on the elite level. I tend to read Bayern's forum and majority fans were actually disappointed, because of the very high standards and of course because of the Bayerns status. It was not just because of the results, it was especially because they did not see any idea besides passing the ball and they were especially disappointed if they were somehow lucky to beat some minnows away 1-0 or 2-0.
yeah, Lucho is not Pep and et cetera, but i see similar things in here- no system, no ideas, no control, ugly, we do not dominate, we do not pres we are not Barca anymore, we won't win anything with that system, too many rotations, too many players in strange formations (Lahm as DM, anyone!) etc etc.
Lucho may not be the coach we need or maybe not good enough and not Pep, but then again, lets give him at least chance unlike Bayern fans that I referred.
In my opinion, the picture of Lucho is especially dark because we have Real madrid in comparison. We tend to forget how they struggled in transition and only live in the moment where madrid is playing beatifully and winning and we are in transition. The same old impatience and obsession with Madrid. Real Madrid was playing like crap until Christmas last year, but hey, Carlo is genius and the first rate.
You can't build anything when you are not willing to let some things go.

P.S And all this bring back Rijkaard thing, as ridiculous as it is: those who might fancy idea or think that Rijkaard was a good transitional coach may check the league table of Rijkaard's time after 10-15 matches of the season. Please do.

We're playing without a defined system this was never the case for Bayern or RM.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
About Pep again. People tend to forget that he struggled big time at his first year at Bayern. Yeah, he won the league, but Bundesliga last year was a joke, Dortmund had to deal with organizational issues and had loads of injuries and they really have a small team comparing nowadays requirements on the elite level. I tend to read Bayern's forum and majority fans were actually disappointed, because of the very high standards and of course because of the Bayerns status. It was not just because of the results, it was especially because they did not see any idea besides passing the ball and they were especially disappointed if they were somehow lucky to beat some minnows away 1-0 or 2-0.
yeah, Lucho is not Pep and et cetera, but i see similar things in here- no system, no ideas, no control, ugly, we do not dominate, we do not pres we are not Barca anymore, we won't win anything with that system, too many rotations, too many players in strange formations (Lahm as DM, anyone!) etc etc.
Lucho may not be the coach we need or maybe not good enough and not Pep, but then again, lets give him at least chance unlike Bayern fans that I referred.
In my opinion, the picture of Lucho is especially dark because we have Real madrid in comparison. We tend to forget how they struggled in transition and only live in the moment where madrid is playing beatifully and winning and we are in transition. The same old impatience and obsession with Madrid. Real Madrid was playing like crap until Christmas last year, but hey, Carlo is genius and the first rate.
You can't build anything when you are not willing to let some things go.

P.S And all this bring back Rijkaard thing, as ridiculous as it is: those who might fancy idea or think that Rijkaard was a good transitional coach may check the league table of Rijkaard's time after 10-15 matches of the season. Please do.

Rijkaard was inexperienced, new to the club and the players back then were ALOT worse then the current squad. Yes, it took some time but you could see Rijkaard actually had a strategy and a plan. He saw the team and started working. Witness the massive transformation when the team clicked in the second half of the season. Yes, Ronnie was instrumental but freaking hell we played some brilliant football. I think we had a 18 match winning streak then..................

Now contrast this to Lucho-non stop rotation, no midfield, no plan-already butting heads with the Catalan media etc. If Lucho turns this around I will be the FIRST to acknowledge it but it wont happen.
Lucho is a lot like Roy Keane-fiery and passionate as a player but sub-par as a manager. The cool head and tactical savoir faire are not there.
 

rixxer

New member
what system did Ancelotti used at the beginning of the last season? Or Pep? They were experimenting, lot of ideas but not a clear system. I can agree that there is not a clear system right at Barca now but I still argue that this is quite a norm when transition begins, it's the case with the first rate managers as well. In pep's case, there was the best system of the football already built in but he still started to tweak and finally changed it completely over that I think totally got them screwed over in the CL semi final.
But they really have a system in their second year, as far as I have seen this year.

However, there has to be some directions to move toward and currently we just see it in flashes (Ajax, the second half eg). I can buy that Lucho may have doubts, also this rotating is a bit over (which actually is clear idea that may be part of the system) the top, but like I said, transition just began. The worst pep's legacy (it is weird to express it) was actually immediate success. It was as impressive as it was actually abnormal and I think it won't be repetaed in near future, but we still require it from every coach even if we acknowledge that the team requiers changes in every level and in every department. Thats my point, actually.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Can someone please explain why Lucho does not change to 4-2-3-1?

Its suicidal playing a high line with the defenders we have now. We don't have a prime Alves, Abidal or Puyol. Pique is a lazy $#@.

The goal by Almeria was a perfect example of why we need our defence to stay deeper and why we need 2 DM's protecting the defence plus providing more bodies in midfield.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
what system did Ancelotti used at the beginning of the last season? Or Pep? They were experimenting, lot of ideas but not a clear system. I can agree that there is not a clear system right at Barca now but I still argue that this is quite a norm when transition begins, it's the case with the first rate managers as well. In pep's case, there was the best system of the football already built in but he still started to tweak and finally changed it completely over that I think totally got them screwed over in the CL semi final.
But they really have a system in their second year, as far as I have seen this year.

However, there has to be some directions to move toward and currently we just see it in flashes (Ajax, the second half eg). I can buy that Lucho may have doubts, also this rotating is a bit over (which actually is clear idea that may be part of the system) the top, but like I said, transition just began. The worst pep's legacy (it is weird to express it) was actually immediate success. It was as impressive as it was actually abnormal and I think it won't be repetaed in near future, but we still require it from every coach even if we acknowledge that the team requiers changes in every level and in every department. Thats my point, actually.

Lucho lacks the temperament to be a big club manager.
 
E

El_e8

Guest
Gimme a break with transition stories. It's Moyes all over again. Simply not good enough for big club.
 
L

linetty

Guest
Not even twice he used the same starting eleven... that speaks volumes about him. When things go bad he tells the players to hoof the ball over the top and wait for Messi to work his magic. Pretty obvious this is his tactical limit.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
P.S And all this bring back Rijkaard thing, as ridiculous as it is: those who might fancy idea or think that Rijkaard was a good transitional coach may check the league table of Rijkaard's time after 10-15 matches of the season. Please do.

Ok, but there is a one difference.
In 2003, we had HIT THE BOTTOM. And the board (Laporta), a coach (Rijkaard) and fans were ready for a new era/new cycle, even if that means selling virtually 50% of the first team players.

So, let's see what Rijkaard has done. This was our team when he came:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003–04_FC_Barcelona_season

-- in 2003 summer, when he came, he bought 3 younger players for the new cycle:
-- 23 yrs old Aml-Fc Ronaldinho, 24 yrs old Dc-Dmc Marquez, new hyped the next world's superstar Mr Quaresma, and he loaned Gio VBronckhorst to see how will he fit into our team
-- and the first part of the Season wasn't good
-- we had too many "dead" players from the old cycle and the team just wasn't working well
-- we were in the middle of the table around New Year, and played like a crap

BUT! Rijkaard had the balls to change things in that moment.
He started to bench older superstars like Kluivert, Lucho Enrique, Overmars and similar players.
Plus, he loaned Edgar Davids on a 6-Months deal in January.

Suddenly, with some of the older superstars on the bench, with Edgar Davids on Dmc and with some new younger players in the team, our team had something like 13-14 victories in a row in a 2nd part of the Season.
We almost won a title in the end, even though we were 20 points behind the leaders around Christmas.

Further, at the end of the Season, Rijkaard decided that he no longer needs players of the older generation, and in a Summer of 2004 he kicked all these superstarts from our team:
-- Lucho Enrique (lol), Gk Rustu Recber, Dr Reiziger, Fc Saviola, Mc Cocu, Fc Kluivert, Amr Overmars, Mc Luis Garcia
-- plus, he kicked the hyped superstar Quaresma out of the team

-- so, that was 9 players kicked out of the team, and Rijkaard started a new generation of players
-- so, in summer 2003 he bought Ronaldinho, Marquez and Van Bronckhorst
-- and in summer 2004 he bought new guys: Fc Eto'o, Mc Deco, Amr Guily, Dmc Edmilson, DR Belletti, Dl Sylvinho, Fc Larsson
-- plus, he gave more chances to young La Masia players as Victor Valdes, Oleguer, Iniesta, Motta and Messi

So, when we look at the winning team from 2006 (Best 11, who won CL), our best team was:
-- Gk Valdes (Rijkaard promoted him in 2003)
-- Dl Bronckhorst (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Dc Puyol
-- Dc Marquez (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Dr Belletti (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Dmc Edmilson (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Mc Xavi
-- Mc Deco (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Fcl Ronaldinho (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Fc Eto' (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Fcr Guily (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)

-- reserves:
-- Dl Sylvinho (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Dc Oleguer (Rijkaard promoted him in 2004)
-- Dmc Motta (Rijkaard gave him a chance)
-- Mc Iniesta (Rijkaard gave him more chances)
-- Fcr Messi (Rijkaard promoted him)
-- Mc Van Bommel (Rijkaard bought him in 2005)
-- Fc Larsson (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)

-- so, basically Rijkaard brought 11 key new players (Bronckhorst, Belletti, Sylvinho, Marquez, Edmilson, Van Bommel, Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto', Guily, Larsson) and promoted 5 La Masia products (Oleguer, Motta, Valdes, Iniesta, Messi)
-- he only kept 2 (!!) players from a previous cycle, and those were 2 homegrown players, Puyol and Xavi

So, again, from 1999-2003 era, Rijkaard kicked THE WHOLE TEAM, and kept only 2 homegrown players Xavi and Puyol, and has built a completely new and motivated team.

He won La Liga in his 2nd and the 3rd Season (2005 and 2006), and won Champions league in 2006.
But then, as always, the same curse strucked his team.

Players who were once motivated and who jumped into a shoes of the old guard players, suddenly started to play exactly like the players from 1999-2003 era.
Ronaldinho, Deco and co started to be lazy, they started to party too much etc.

Again, then Pep came, and kicked ALL the players from this generation in order to build a new team.

My point is: NO. Lucho doesn't have any similarities with Rijkaard or Pep.
Our team, coach and the board still haven't figured out that this team is mostly dead and finished.
And this is not a season of transition, lol. We are dead, and we are weaker and weaker each Month. And we will continue to fall further and further until someone will kick out at least 50% of the current team out.

Seriously, do you think that Lucho or the current board have the balls to say goodbye to: Pique, Pedro, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Montoya and lots of other players?
No.

Do you know why?
Because they will reply: "But those players are not finished, they can still play very well"

Look, Ronaldinho, Deco, Motta, Edmilson, Belletti, and lots of other players could have still played good. But they were all kicked out because they were past their prime.
And a team full of players who are past their prime is NOT good enough to win CL.

Anyway, I just don't see how Lucho will repeat Rijkaard's or Pep's success with the current set of unmotivated and mostly past-their-prime players.
Both Rijkaard and Pep would kick out half of these players, and they would either promote youngsters, or like Rijkaard, they would buy 16 new players in 2 Seasons.

We still haven't hit the bottom. And we haven't started a transition yet.

So, please don't compare Lucho and this board with Laporta, Rijkaard and Pep.
 
Last edited:

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Ok, but there is a one difference.
In 2003, we had HIT THE BOTTOM. And the board (Laporta), a coach (Rijkaard) and fans were ready for a new era/new cycle, even if that means selling virtually 50% of the first team players.

So, let's see what Rijkaard has done. This was our team when he came:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003–04_FC_Barcelona_season

-- in 2003 summer, when he came, he bought 3 younger players for the new cycle:
-- 23 yrs old Aml-Fc Ronaldinho, 24 yrs old Dc-Dmc Marquez, new hyped the next world's superstar Mr Quaresma, and he loaned Gio VBronckhorst to see how will he fit into our team
-- and the first part of the Season wasn't good
-- we had too many "dead" players from the old cycle and the team just wasn't working well
-- we were in the middle of the table around New Year, and played like a crap

BUT! Rijkaard had the balls to change things in that moment.
He started to bench older superstars like Kluivert, Lucho Enrique, Overmars and similar players.
Plus, he loaned Edgar Davids on a 6-Months deal in January.

Suddenly, with some of the older superstars on the bench, with Edgar Davids on Dmc and with some new younger players in the team, our team had something like 13-14 victories in a row in a 2nd part of the Season.
We almost won a title in the end, even though we were 20 points behind the leaders around Christmas.

Further, at the end of the Season, Rijkaard decided that he no longer needs players of the older generation, and in a Summer of 2004 he kicked all these superstarts from our team:
-- Lucho Enrique (lol), Gk Rustu Recber, Dr Reiziger, Fc Saviola, Mc Cocu, Fc Kluivert, Amr Overmars, Mc Luis Garcia
-- plus, he kicked the hyped superstar Quaresma out of the team

-- so, that was 9 players kicked out of the team, and Rijkaard started a new generation of players
-- so, in summer 2003 he bought Ronaldinho, Marquez and Van Bronckhorst
-- and in summer 2004 he bought new guys: Fc Eto'o, Mc Deco, Amr Guily, Dmc Edmilson, DR Belletti, Dl Sylvinho, Fc Larsson
-- plus, he gave more chances to young La Masia players as Victor Valdes, Oleguer, Iniesta, Motta and Messi

So, when we look at the winning team from 2006 (Best 11, who won CL), our best team was:
-- Gk Valdes (Rijkaard promoted him in 2003)
-- Dl Bronckhorst (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Dc Puyol
-- Dc Marquez (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Dr Belletti (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Dmc Edmilson (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Mc Xavi
-- Mc Deco (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Fcl Ronaldinho (Rijkaard bought him in 2003)
-- Fc Eto' (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Fcr Guily (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)

-- reserves:
-- Dl Sylvinho (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)
-- Dc Oleguer (Rijkaard promoted him in 2004)
-- Dmc Motta (Rijkaard gave him a chance)
-- Mc Iniesta (Rijkaard gave him more chances)
-- Fcr Messi (Rijkaard promoted him)
-- Mc Van Bommel (Rijkaard bought him in 2005)
-- Fc Larsson (Rijkaard bought him in 2004)

-- so, basically Rijkaard brought 11 key new players (Bronckhorst, Belletti, Sylvinho, Marquez, Edmilson, Van Bommel, Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto', Guily, Larsson) and promoted 5 La Masia products (Oleguer, Motta, Valdes, Iniesta, Messi)
-- he only kept 2 (!!) players from a previous cycle, and those were 2 homegrown players, Puyol and Xavi

So, again, from 1999-2003 era, Rijkaard kicked THE WHOLE TEAM, and kept only 2 homegrown players Xavi and Puyol, and has built a completely new and motivated team.

He won La Liga in his 2nd and the 3rd Season (2005 and 2006), and won Champions league in 2006.
But then, as always, the same curse strucked his team.

Players who were once motivated and who jumped into a shoes of the old guard players, suddenly started to play exactly like the players from 1999-2003 era.
Ronaldinho, Deco and co started to be lazy, they started to party too much etc.

Again, then Pep came, and kicked ALL the players from this generation in order to build a new team.

My point is: NO. Lucho doesn't have any similarities with Rijkaard or Pep.
Our team, coach and the board still haven't figured out that this team is mostly dead and finished.
And this is not a season of transition, lol. We are dead, and we are weaker and weaker each Month. And we will continue to fall further and further until someone will kick out at least 50% of the current team out.

Seriously, do you think that Lucho or the current board have the balls to say goodbye to: Pique, Pedro, Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Montoya and lots of other players?
No.

Do you know why?
Because they will reply: "But those players are not finished, they can still play very well"

Look, Ronaldinho, Deco, Motta, Edmilson, Belletti, and lots of other players could have still played good. But they were all kicked out because they were past their prime.
And a team full of players who are past their prime is NOT good enough to win CL.

Anyway, I just don't see how Lucho will repeat Rijkaard's or Pep's success with the current set of unmotivated and mostly past-their-prime players.
Both Rijkaard and Pep would kick out half of these players, and they would either promote youngsters, or like Rijkaard, they would buy 16 new players in 2 Seasons.

We still haven't hit the bottom and we won't start a transition and a new cycle until we will say goodbye to at least 50% of the current gold generation.

So, please don't compare Lucho and this board with Laporta, Rijkaard and Pep.

Excellent, excellent stuff!

While Pep gets most of the credit Rijkaard, Laporta and Ronaldinho really kicked off our Golden era.
 

Darko

New member
I think results are secondary at the moment, at least for me. Of course I want the team to win every game and to win every trophy but I don't think that everyone is angry because we lost against Real and Vigo. This is just the tip on the iceberg.

It's about enjoying this team. Football is about enjoying and having fun. Neither the fans nor the players seem to have fun at the moment. A big problem is that our players only have enjoy playing when our opponent makes it relatively easy for us. If an opponent parks the bus, there is zero confidence, zero creativity and zero team-play at the moment. We have the world's best footballers in our squad but we still can't enjoy them. Even after we win (e.g against Ajax) everyone complains. It's like every good moment is overshadowed by the bad moments which unfortunately become more and more.

The game vs Milan was the last time I really enjoyed every single minute. The atmosphere, the desire of every single player, Messi's ridiculous form and simply the big middle finger to the international press who wrote us off. Since then some matches were good, some were ok, but most were like ''yeah, 3 points. I'm going to sleep now.''

I want to have the feeling back that we build something, that we're united, that we fight for every centimetre on the pitch. This is what I want. I could care less about a loss vs Real Madrid or Celta Vigo because losses happen in football but I want to see a plan and a direction where things are going.

There is no atmosphere in the Camp Nou. It seems like most fans take wins for granted. Would we support our team if it was at place 18 in the table? BVB fans did that yesterday and they won the match because of their unbelievable support.

It's really sad but I'm not looking forward to any match like I did a few years ago because it's always the same procedure: Opponent parks the bus - we have problems - we score in the 70th minute - we score the winner and everyone goes home. It's annoying and it's certainly not the beautiful thing I fell in love with a few years ago.

this x100000
 

Frodo_FCB

New member
We have the international break now and Lucho has some time to clear his mind. Lets hope that he will sit his ass down and realize the mistakes he has done with the tactics.
There are a lot of things to be fixed, but there is time too. We are just 2 points behind RM and we need 2 wins in 2 games to finish first in Ch.L
Im quite optimistic about the upcoming weeks.
 

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