Luis Enrique

i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
They are different. You can say otherwise but it's different. The passing is not focused on triangles anymore. We pass to open spaces now. The triangle was the biggest part of the Pep tiki taka. We don't fully rely on the mid now (nor in the 2015 treble season). Messi was not the central part of the attack under Lucho's winning seasons. The attack is more shared now as opposed to Pep's time.

The DM role isn't even the same. Busquets thrived under Pep because he was given more freedom. Under Lucho, the DM role is much more traditional and now he has Rakitic alongside him acting like a DM/CM hybrid.

Also, Lucho utilizes the wings WAY more than Pep ever did. In fact most success under Lucho's tenure came from attacks on the wing. With Pep we nearly always played through the middle because our passing was that hypnotizing. The passing channels under the Pep system was also a much shorter distance. Keeping very close space between the mids and the attackers was another huge highlight of the Pep Tiki Taka. Shorter passing range = easier to play tiki taka. Just compare this to Lucho attacks: A lot come from counter attacks or big passes to MSN who then create something.


I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with that sentence. They are fundamentally different coaches. However, they have both utilized their squads to their fullest strengths. Lucho with the focus on our starpower attack, and Pep with the focus on the La Masia star mids.

I've made this point prior in this thread and I'll reiterate it now, there's a distinct difference in tactics and strategy. I don't disagree with your observations but what you are pointing out are the tactical variations between the two. Tactically in their approach, they are different. Lucho has traded off ultra-possession and control for a more open game that's a bit less organized. The reason for that is to give MSN the freedom to find the open spaces and allows them to interchange at will. At the same time, I'd argue that at its best, Lucho's system was better defensively and is more imposing on set pieces, a long time Achilles heel for us. Yes, we sit deeper and the MF is much more rigid but, for Lucho, he'd rather have that environment than one where the opponent is forced to retreat inside their own box.

Strategically however, I don't see as much difference in them as far as how their general approach to the game is. It's important not to compare our current state as an indication of Lucho's Barça became I think a lot of our tactical features recently are purely circumstancial. But with everyone at top form here, theres definitely still elements of Pep's Barça: interchanging forwards, quick passing moves, overlapping fullbacks. Particularly when we have the ball in the opponents half, we still attack in similar ways, it's just our build-up play from the back that's different from Pep's.

I'm just saying people make it seem like we play like Chelsea (who play better football these days, ironically) under Lucho and have completely abandoned our previous style of play. Yes, Lucho and Pep aren't identical but there is plenty of ideas about the game that they share. Lucho wouldn't have been here in the first place nor would he have had the success he's had without that commonality.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I'm just saying people make it seem like we play like Chelsea (who play better football these days, ironically) under Lucho and have completely abandoned our previous style of play. Yes, Lucho and Pep aren't identical but there is plenty of ideas about the game that they share. Lucho wouldn't have been here in the first place nor would he have had the success he's had without that commonality.

We play more or less the same way for 20-30 years (I don't know how we played in 80's, but in 70s we also played a similar style of football).
So, it isn't as if Pep started to play this way and that Lucho only changed it a little.
We always played like this. During Cruijff as a coach, during Van Gaal, even during early 00s, especially during Rijkaard etc.

I remember when I was a teen in 90s and when I watched Barca, my first thought was: woow, look how well they are passing and keeping the ball. The opponents can't do anything or take the ball away, it's awesome... This will be "my favorite team".

I would add an analogy with Xavi.
Xavi was always Xavi. Durinhg Van Gaal, early 00s and Rijkaard.
And then Pep turned that Xavi into an even better version of himself.
But Pep didn't "created" Xavi as the great passer and mastermind. He was always that guy. Pep only raised him to an even higher level.

The same is with the way how we always played.
Barca always played like Barca.
Pep only raised it to an extreme level of possession and perfection.

Only things which I personally remember that were different in 90s, early 00s or under Rijkaard, compared to Pep:
1. we tried to play faster, and we tried to shoot whenever possible
While during Pep it turned into an extreme: keep the possession no matter what and shoot only when you are alone with a keeper
2. also, we didn't have Messipendencia back then and all attacking players (3 forwards and an attacking midfielder) were shooting like crazy, whenever they were close to an opponent's goal, while today they hesitate a lot, and either wait for a perfect opportunity, or they pass to Messi all the time
3. also, back then we had more crosses and counters compared to today, everything was slightly faster.

About crosses, someone may ask: wait what, did we played like English team then?
Well no, it was more like a Tiki-Taka in Bayern's style (Pep's era) or like a German's NT team, where you play both possession football on the ground, but you also have a lot of crosses since we had much taller players then (for example Rivaldo 186 cm and Kluivert 188 cm), so we could create both shortpassing chances (like we do mostly today), and goals after crosses.

Anyway, for example, I remember watching this game in a 1999/2000 season, and we totally demolished Chelsea.
It was a Champions league quarterfinals. We lost 3:1 on a Stamford bridge, and we needed a 2:0 or higher win at home to progress into semis.
(Van Gaal was a coach. We had Rivaldo, Figo, Kluivert, Luis Enrique, Guardiola, tons of Dutch players).

This is a classic example of a good old Barca. We always attacked, we had possession all the time. Opponents looked like idiots compared to our guys.
The only difference compared with Pep's and post Pep's era is that we didn't need 30 or 50 passes to create a chance, we didn't hesitate to shoot, we didn't look for Messi all the time, and we used crosses way more (which we can't today since we have all short players from Pep's era):

Look at the level of classic Barca's possession, attacking all the time, domination, being 2 levels better than majority of opponents, classic beautiful actions/passes/dribbles as always.
** Plus, lol, you can see Mourinho on our bench as a part of Van Gaal's team (celebrating Barca's goal against Chelsea, lol the irony)
 
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serghei

Senior Member
I'm just saying people make it seem like we play like Chelsea (who play better football these days, ironically) under Lucho and have completely abandoned our previous style of play. Yes, Lucho and Pep aren't identical but there is plenty of ideas about the game that they share. Lucho wouldn't have been here in the first place nor would he have had the success he's had without that commonality.

They do share some ideas, but in other areas they are very different. Overall, you can't say that we play the same as under Pep, because several things that were key aspects in Guardiola's philosophy are missing under Lucho.
 

Sorin

Well-known member
Why does this guy still insist with Arda fecking Turan is beyond me. What does it need to happen for Enrique to finally learn from his mistakes?

The shit subs and chaotic system, if you can even call this shitshow a system, need to stop. If that means Enrique is out then by all means, please leave the team as soon a posible.

Oh well, we still have a chance but not with Enrique at the helm, unfortunately.
 

ThwiX

Best midfielder around
Worst result possible. Still got Lucho and still 6 points behind. Subbing on Arda in midfield even after seeing over and over again that he can't play there. Most stubborn coach I have seen.
 

ini4ever

Member
I saw no improvement in this game, if we assume Iniesta changed things a bit better so literally his midfield tactics depend on him mostly.
And Lucho you deserve this when you play cowardly.
 

kilian

Senior Member
Resign, you fucking useless cunt!

He lost us the game yet again. Even with his retarded tactics we manage to score a goal and start controlling the game and then that fucking piece of shit rips the team apart with subs and gifts them a very valuable point. I can`t stand the guy anymore.
 

Devils

Senior Member
Why the FUCK did he bring on Arda?

After Arda's disgraceful game against Hercules he should have been told to fuck off until he gets his shit together. Instead Lucho plays the reckless idiot and and costs us the game.

Arda is fucking calamity and Lucho should have acknowledged that mid week.
 
F

FlaFCB

Guest
Worst result possible. Still got Lucho and still 6 points behind. Subbing on Arda in midfield even after seeing over and over again that he can't play there. Most stubborn coach I have seen.

Worst would be losing, wouldn't it?

But subbing Arda in was a terrible idea. Why the hell did he do that. We were winning. I don't understand his arda fetish. I really don't.
 

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