Luis Enrique

[Xtroverto]

FC Barcelona today is something completely different to the team that promoted Xavi/Puyol/Iniesta/Valdes/Motta/Gabri/Reina/Oleguer. In those days it was much easier for Van Gaal/Ferrer/Rexach and Rijkaard to promote players from the B-squad. The team was not performing like today where a draw is a lost and losing more than 7-8 points in the first half is practically throwing away the league.

Xavi for the first 3 seasons was considered a bench player, he was Gabriel Garcia de la Torre's sub under Serra Ferrer in 2000-2001. It is not difficult to get playing minutes when THAT is you main competition. Same with Puyol, his main competition on the right back was Michael Reizinger, the absolute worst I have ever seen in Barcelona. Victor Valdes main competition was Bonano, a horrible goalkeeper that had no business being what so ever in Barcelona. Iniesta in his first 2 seasons played all over the place because he could not compete for a place on the midfield with (Xavi and Deco), and he is THE best creative mindfielder this club has ever seen. Iniesta together with Busquets are the ONLY la Masia alumni that has had real competition to overcome.

When we won the league in 2004-2005 we had Oleguer as a starter (almost 3000 minutes in the league), his main competitor was Fernando Navarro, again that is not difficult to comptete with. And a player of Oleguers level today would not even fit on the bench.

All of these player that our youth players had to compete with would not even have a place as a fringe player in today's squad, the level of competition is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher. Munir everyone and their grand mother screamed for him to get kicked out in 2015-16 season. And now suddenly he is the second coming of Jesus

 

[Barcaman]

So much wrong with your post but I only have time for your last sentence. Noone said Munir was second coming. We are saying he is better than Paco and we wasted 30 million and effectively blocked La Masia youngster. As it turns out that we wasted 40 million and sent another Masia boy Sandro away.

We basically wasted 70 million on those 2 players alone while diving away our youth players who, ironically, are even turning out better than those new shiny toys.

 

[Messi983]

If Messi wasn't injured he would also have been up there.

What am I reading from this?
Last season our downfall was tired MSN and Lucho is running them to the ground again.

He was also injured at around the same time last season and missed more games than this season.


So let's compare minutes that MSN played this and last season until December 24th. In 2015/16 season we played 28 games until that date, this season we played 26 (we played one more league game but didn't participate in CWC and European Supercup).


2015/16 season:

Neymar - Completed games – 17, subbed off – 2, didn't play – 9 games (Injured/ill/rested), total minutes - 1.704, % of possible minutes played – 66,8%
Suarez - Completed games – 24, didn't play - 4 games (rested), total minutes - 2.190, % of possible minutes played - 88,9%
Messi - Completed games – 14; Subbed off – 1, Subbed on – 2, didnt' play (injured/rested) – 11, total minutes - 1.364, % of possible minutes played - 53,5%


2016/17 season:

Neymar -Completed games – 16, Subbed off - 2, didn't play (on Olympics/rested/suspended) - 8, total minutes - 1.604, % of possible minutes played - 68,5%
Suarez - Completed games – 16, Subbed off - 4, Subbed on - 1, didn't play (rested/suspended) - 5, total minutes - 1.720*, % of possible minutes played - 73,5%
Messi - Completed games – 17, Subbed off - 1, Subbed on - 2, didn't play (injured/ill/rested) - 6, total minutes - 1.654*, % of possible minutes played - 70,7%

* It seems that both Supercopa games were not included in that Sport table posted above.

So in comparision. Suarez's playing time has dropped considerably, Neymar is at about the same level and of course Messi played more this season because he missed less games because of an injury.


Now let's see minutes that MSN played after 24th of December last season. We played 34 total games (23 in La Liga, 7 in Copa and 4 in CL)

Neymar - Completed games – 30, Subbed off - 0, Subbed on - 0, didn't play (injured/rested/suspended) - 4, total minutes - 2.730, % of possible minutes played - 88,3%
Suarez - Completed games – 28, Subbed off - 1*, Subbed on - 0, didn't play (injured/rested/suspended) - 5, total minutes - 2.576, % of possible minutes played - 83,4%
Messi - Completed games – 31, Subbed off - 1, Subbed on - 0, didn't play (injured/rested) - 2, total minutes - 2.820, % of possible minutes played - 91,3%

*injury in Copa final (our last game of the season)


Now that's where I'd say Lucho has run MSN to the ground. Not in the first half of the season but after New Year. I believe that MSN can easily play around 70-80% of the minutes every season. Especially Messi who has learned how to "rest" while on the pitch. But playing 85-90% of minutes is too much for them as well.

I don't think they've played too much so far this season. Of course injuries "help" to keep their minutes down, especially in Messi's case but Arda's good form has allowed Lucho to give Neymar more rest, i.e. away game at San Mames when Ney had one week off after Olympics. Most people disagreed with his decision at that time but longterm it was probably the right one. We won that game and Arda provided an assist for the winning goal. Yes, Paco wasn't good so far but at least he did give Suarez more rest. Could Munir or Sandro also done that? Of course. But would they? Lucho didn't show enough trust in them last year and knowing him I don't think their situation would really change much this season. So if Paco is here just to let Suarez play around 800-1000 minutes less than last season I'm ok with that for now. Again, Munir or Sandro could play those minutes but if Lucho wouldn't believe in them and will continue to play Suarez instead of playing them then that wouldn't help us (or both youngsters in their progress). At the same time I'm one of those few fans who still believe that Paco will prove himself as useful player for us in second half of the season. And of course Messi is Messi and will play most of the times when healthy but I think Rafinha (especially his goal-scoring record which is very good this season) has also proven that he can play at his position (not totally Messi's role though) against lesser opponents if Lucho will decide to rest Messi.


I hope Lucho won't repeat his mistake from last season and will continue to give more rest to MSN. If we look at our remaining schedule, we still have from 26 (worst case, so if we go out against Athletic and PSG in Copa/CL) to 36 games (best case - we won another treble) to play, so let's say we are at around 40-50% of our season. I'll just go with best case scenario here and say we'll play 36 games, so a total of 3.240 more minutes (not counting any possible ET in CDR/CL games). So if we can somehow restrain all of them to around 2.600-2.700 minutes (so around 80%) in remaining games I think we'll be ok.

Now when and where to rotate/rest them is another question. I don't think we'll see that in CL. MSN will play most of minutes in that competition unless we already have a comfortable (aggregate) lead and Lucho can substitute one of Suarez or Ney for the last 20-30 minutes in 2nd leg against PSG. And then maybe if we get Real Madrid lucky and draw an easier opponent in quarterfinals but I wouldn't count on that.

CDR is an obvious competition for rotations. We'll see how Lucho will handle that but I could see Arda starting in Neymar's place at San Mames again. And then there are of course home league games. Yes, it will be hard to rotate as much after how many points we already lost at Camp Nou and Lucho should never start 7 or 8 bench players again at the same time but I think with healthy Iniesta and Busquets in better form we can afford to occasionaly rest one of MSN. Of course not playing Messi when healthy will be very hard but I think there should be a Liga game or two at Camp Nou against easier opponents (especially before CL games) when he can start on the bench (but both Suarez and Neymar should start that game). I just think that at least two of MSN should always play unless the game is already decided, so you either start with Arda-Suarez-Messi or Neymar-Paco-Messi (I'd like to see that) or Neymar-Suarez-Rafinha. If Lucho will decide to give rest to Suarez and Neymar in the same game then you have to start Messi, Busquets, Iniesta and our best defense. But Messi is the only one who I'd trust to start alongside two non-MSN forwards. If Suarez's and/or Neymar's form will clearly improve then I'll maybe change my mind about that but right now I wouldn't feel confident with Neymar-Paco-Rafinha or Arda-Suarez-Rafinha kind of lineup.


Also, another important thing that I almost forget to mention is that La Liga has been played through hollidays last season while MSN will have almost 3 weeks off this year. And we also didn't have to travel to Japan for CWC. So there is no doubt in my mind that MSN and the rest of the team shouldn't again fall off in later part of the season because of tiredness. But Lucho should still keep rotating and resting them.

 

[Xtroverto]

So much wrong with your post but I only have time for your last sentence. Noone said Munir was second coming. We are saying he is better than Paco and we wasted 30 million and effectively blocked La Masia youngster. As it turns out that we wasted 40 million and sent another Masia boy Sandro away.

We basically wasted 70 million on those 2 players alone while diving away our youth players who, ironically, are even turning out better than those new shiny toys.

Munir is just not good enough for FC Barcelona, he has had 2 season to proove himself and failed. If he was so good as you want it to be, then he should not be the fringe player he is now at Valencia, he can't even compete with useless Nani for a starter position.

 

[God Serena]

Munir is just not good enough for FC Barcelona, he has had 2 season to proove himself and failed. If he was so good as you want it to be, then he should not be the fringe player he is now at Valencia, he can't even compete with useless Nani for a starter position.

I love how you try to use Valencia as some sort of measuring stick. Paco was starting for Valencia and he's been absolutely useless for us, even against 3rd tier opposition. Munir even in Lucho's first season was playing on a higher level.

 

[El Flaco]

For those who understand Spanish, here's the entire interview Lucho made with Barca TV.

It's 1 hour long btw.

 

[serghei]

So much wrong with your post but I only have time for your last sentence. Noone said Munir was second coming. We are saying he is better than Paco and we wasted 30 million and effectively blocked La Masia youngster. As it turns out that we wasted 40 million and sent another Masia boy Sandro away.

We basically wasted 70 million on those 2 players alone while diving away our youth players who, ironically, are even turning out better than those new shiny toys.

Munir and Sandro should have been sold and they were. Both are promising players, but certainly couldn't develop playing scrap minutes left by MSN who seem to want to play all the time. And they didn't show they can help the team with very limited game time. They need to play constantly to get better, Sandro is atm, Munir less so.

If you like Munir and Sandro, why the hell would you want them to waste their career being bench players for Barcelona? Paying 30m. for Paco might prove to be bad business, but selling those two players was a good call.

If anything, signing an older striker with experience a la Henrik Larsson might have been the best option in retrospect, but I don't completely count Paco out just yet.

 

[gasgas]

Munir and Sandro should have been sold and they were. Both are promising players, but certainly couldn't develop playing scrap minutes left by MSN who seem to want to play all the time. And they didn't show they can help the team with very limited game time. They need to play constantly to get better, Sandro is atm, Munir less so.

If you like Munir and Sandro, why the hell would you want them to waste their career being bench players for Barcelona? Paying 30m. for Paco might prove to be bad business, but selling those two players was a good call.

If anything, signing an older striker with experience a la Henrik Larsson might have been the best option in retrospect, but I don't completely count Paco out just yet.

We need to sell Plaque too. Arda is our new Pedro

I don't wanna hear anyone saying how we don't have a sub for Suarez. There's no player who can sub him without looking lost like Plaque. I hate this crap many of you here advocated, getting a 9 to sub Suarez, knowing for well a 9 can only sub Suarez out

If Suarez is absent play Messi centrally flanked by Arda and Neymar

 

[Barcaman]

Need to wash your teeth if you hate plaque that much.

 

[serghei]

We need to sell Plaque too. Arda is our new Pedro

I don't wanna hear anyone saying how we don't have a sub for Suarez. There's no player who can sub him without looking lost like Plaque. I hate this crap many of you here advocated, getting a 9 to sub Suarez, knowing for well a 9 can only sub Suarez out

If Suarez is absent play Messi centrally flanked by Arda and Neymar

You need a no9 sub either way. But probably the mistake was going for a player that is still developing and needs game time like Alcacer. It would've been better maybe to go for someone with experience who would sit on the bench and come in when needed to make an impact. Paco is not much different than Sandro and Munir, in the sense that he also needs more consistent game time to improve, which he won't get here. Is he a bad player? No. But he needs time and minutes, and both come in short supply at Barcelona with MSN in the mix.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

.. So we did waste 30m on paco.

 

[gasgas]

You need a no9 sub either way. But probably the mistake was going for a player that is still developing and needs game time like Alcacer. It would've been better maybe to go for someone with experience who would sit on the bench and come in when needed to make an impact. Paco is not much different than Sandro and Munir, in the sense that he also needs more consistent game time to improve, which he won't get here. Is he a bad player? No. But he needs time and minutes, and both come in short supply at Barcelona with MSN in the mix.

No you dont
you just need a versatile forward who can sub in on any of MSN

Arda is sufficient. As i said. Suarez is absent Messi goes centrally (he likes it better anyway) and Arda takes the RW as easy as that, instead of putting another lamp post in the form of a 9 because the truth is, you can't find a 9 like Suarez who can link up, score, make runs and produce passes like Suarez

whoever the 9 we can get will be another donkey

 

[te amo barca]

No you dont
you just need a versatile forward who can sub in on any of MSN

Arda is sufficient. As i said. Suarez is absent Messi goes centrally (he likes it better anyway) and Arda takes the RW as easy as that, instead of putting another lamp post in the form of a 9 because the truth is, you can't find a 9 like Suarez who can link up, score, make runs and produce passes like Suarez

whoever the 9 we can get will be another donkey

You do not get it. Messi drifts centrally now and he likes it better only because there is Suarez in front of him now, occupying the space of the opposition's central defenders and enabling Messi to operate in the space between opposition midfielders and defenders. With Messi as the false 9 and no real striker, Leo will be too isolated, false 9 does not work nowadays, rembember Tata's season.

 

[gasgas]

You do not get it. Messi drifts centrally now and he likes it better only because there is Suarez in front of him now, occupying the space of the opposition's central defenders and enabling Messi to operate in the space between opposition midfielders and defenders. With Messi as the false 9 and no real striker, Leo will be too isolated, false 9 does not work nowadays, rembember Tata's season.

Wasn't Suarez there in 2014/15 and 2015/16
why did Messi play RW instead of being central

False 9 doesn't work, reference being Tata season?
Well it does not work in big games vs teams that know how to contain us.
We were beating minnows as usual with false 9, at times we were scoring manitas with Cesc crapegas playing there as well. You think we can't beat teams today with that?

And i already said that we will play Messi centrally only to rest Suarez, and that would be in the small games where we can play false 9 with no problem

You do think a frontline of Arda Messi Neymar will not cut it against Sporting Gijon, Deportivo la Coruna, or Cordoba

OR even worse a frontline of
Neymar Paco lol Messi
would do better just because Paco (or put any other washed out 9 there, who will accept to play behind MSN and Arda in the pecking order e.g RVP, Gomez, Gilardinho, Defoe etc) is a true 9?????????????????

 

[serghei]

False 9 Barca was at it's most fluid state, in the prime of Pep's system. We didn't play false 9 with Messi, Henry, and Eto'o, did we? When the system was more classical and less fluid (at least in the final third).

We can't even cope with Messi vacating his RW spot that often, because we don't play a fluid system, but a more rigid one. Messi moving from the RW for center action doesn't trigger any reaction from Roberto and Suarez except in extremely rare cases. They stick to their zones as if Messi would be in the right, except he isn't, which leaves a massive hole there (check that article about Messi not having a position). It's like a rigid system where one player has a special power where he can move around, but without anyone actually picking up his movement and actually posing a threat in the spaces Messi leaves open.

Keep in mind that the false 9 Messi was also Messi at his physical prime probably. And that even Pep wanted to have a clear striker in front of Messi, hence the Ibra transfer.