Luis Suárez

There was a poster who wrote. Is Luis Suarez the worst player ever to wear a Barcelona shirt. Do not know if it is in this thread or a Game thread from the last 2 weeks.
This is the extreme end of the douchebaggery that you get with some fans who want their players to never miss a pass or a touch. You are clearly not getting that with him and his CL play has not been up to par. But the internet breeds a lot of idiots and their hot takes.
 

Arizona Scott

New member
With respect, the fact is, you (and I'd assume 99% of the posters here, myself included) are laymen when it comes football. You think you *know* because you catch a few games and probably play FIFA, but you really don't know how it works. Nearly every expert I've heard talk about Suarez (including Valverde) has insisted that his goal or touch ratio is legitimately irrelevant because he brings so much more to the system.

But of course, most layman are at home counting how many good touches vs. bad touches, and they think they know what they're talking about. Well, Suarez (yet again, for the umpteenth time) is now saying: :shh:

It is such a nonsense argument. CL matches are football matches--just like the league, just like the cup. The main difference is the ones that really matter are March-April-May (sometimes 1st week of June) and there are just a few of them each year, so some bad breaks and your out and almost every winner needs some good breaks. To isolate 24 games out of hundreds of matches is just terrible sampling and inference--again other than the fact the ones that matter are later season where many times the past 12 years we are burned out trying to wrap up the league, get to win/Copa final and win the CL. Winning the CL is really tough and almost always involved some lucky breaks and questionable, 50/50, ref calls.
 

Xtroverto

Member
I would say the person who thinks that clasicos are the whole season is a bigger crackpot than these guys

Luis Suarez together with Lionel Messi has had such an immense impact on Fc Barcelona that I fully expect one if not all three of the following things to happen, I'd be really disappointed otherwise :cheers:

1. Plaça Espaya is renamed Plaça Luis Suarez in honor of his unmatched achievments while Plaça Catalunya is renaned Plaça Lionel Messi.
2 A royal parade is held in their honor up and down and then up again Passeig de Gracia, attended by the spanish king and queen, whom obviously will perform the depest bow ever seen in the presence of such a geniuses
3 A naval gun salute is held in their honor at the port of Barcelona every sunday at 3 o clock for a full year following both retirement.
 
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YodaMaster

Member
Doesn't matter in how a bad form Suarez is, this guy can deliver at any moment. His flair is what makes him the greatest 9 of his generation. Suarez might be past it, but prime Suarez is one of the best 9 Barca ever had.

That's why I'll never put a guy like Rakitic in the same bracket as guys like Piqué, Busquets and Suarez. The latter 3, when they hit top form, are the absolute best players at their respective position Barca could have. A guy like Suarez who's 32 and who has bad knees, will never be best 9 day in day out, 52 weeks per year, again. But sometimes he still has those crazy games when he makes you think "Damn I don't want to trade this guy for anybody". Sadly he's getting old and these moments are less and less frequent.

While a guy like Rakitic, even at his very best, had only the level of a utility player for Barca standards.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
With respect, the fact is, you (and I'd assume 99% of the posters here, myself included) are laymen when it comes football. You think you *know* because you catch a few games and probably play FIFA, but you really don't know how it works. Nearly every expert I've heard talk about Suarez (including Valverde) has insisted that his goal or touch ratio is legitimately irrelevant because he brings so much more to the system.

But of course, most layman are at home counting how many good touches vs. bad touches, and they think they know what they're talking about. Well, Suarez (yet again, for the umpteenth time) is now saying: :shh:

It is such a nonsense argument. CL matches are football matches--just like the league, just like the cup. The main difference is the ones that really matter are March-April-May (sometimes 1st week of June) and there are just a few of them each year, so some bad breaks and your out and almost every winner needs some good breaks. To isolate 24 games out of hundreds of matches is just terrible sampling and inference--again other than the fact the ones that matter are later season where many times the past 12 years we are burned out trying to wrap up the league, get to win/Copa final and win the CL. Winning the CL is really tough and almost always involved some lucky breaks and questionable, 50/50, ref calls.

With all due respect, that is totally bullshit. There are players who are able to score goals as well as make a positive contribution to their team's overall play.

Suarez' record is partly because of the team, but also on him. His record is shocking for a player of his stature compared to literally every other relevant striker in the World.

I'll hope Suarez can quiet people up by stepping up in the CL too instead of looking like a dead fish there.

Meanwhile you can guys can talk about laymen not understanding football while adding zero to the discussion, zero argument, zero counter-arguments, zero contribution whatsoever than blind fanboyism and digging your heads in the sand.

Those 24 games are more than relevant considering it stretches from 2016 to 2019 as of right now.

Now if you want to talk about how much Suarez adds to Barcelona's overall play with his silky touches and great playmaking, are you claiming these players are mediocre in that aspect?

Since 2016/17 - Games and Goals in ( )

Luis Suarez - 24(4)

Robert Lewandowski - 27(21)

Karim Benzema - 29(14)

Harry Kane - 16(13)

Sergio Aguero - 18(12)

Edinson Cavani - 22(17)

Roberto Firmino - 20(12)

BONUS:

Antoine Griezmann - 25(12)



__________________________________________________

Please reply now rather than disappearing for a few more months.
 
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Arizona Scott

New member
But haters will still want him sold for players not fit to lace his boots

And they will bring up rakitic in a suarez thread.
Suarez has been awesome, rakitic outstanding. Both do there jobs the best the can and barca was fortunate to sign them. And they didn' ask to leave with some good years--e.g., neymar, pedro. What more do you need to appreciate your teams players.

With all due respect, that is totally bullshit. There are players who are able to score goals as well as make a positive contribution to their team's overall play.

Suarez' record is partly because of the team, but also on him. His record is shocking for a player of his stature compared to literally every other relevant striker in the World.

I'll hope Suarez can quiet people up by stepping up in the CL too instead of looking like a dead fish there.

Meanwhile you can guys can talk about laymen not understanding football while adding zero to the discussion, zero argument, zero counter-arguments, zero contribution whatsoever than blind fanboyism and digging your heads in the sand.

Those 24 games are more than relevant considering it stretches from 2016 to 2019 as of right now.

Now if you want to talk about how much Suarez adds to Barcelona's overall play with his silky touches and great playmaking, are you claiming these players are mediocre in that aspect?

Since 2016/17 - Games and Goals in ( )

Luis Suarez - 24(4)

Robert Lewandowski - 27(21)

Karim Benzema - 29(14)

Harry Kane - 16(13)

Sergio Aguero - 18(12)

Edinson Cavani - 22(17)

Roberto Firmino - 20(12)

BONUS:

Antoine Griezmann - 25(12)



__________________________________________________

Please reply now rather than disappearing for a few more months.

Now compare the records in league and domestic cups. Add in assists too.

The bottom line is footy is footy. Barca usually doesnt need much to win the groups (early cl) and when cl matters in march/april/may the team--not just suarez, is often burned out and the matches are 3-4 days after playing league matches we have prioritized just as much.
 

Messigician

Senior Member
Now compare the records in league and domestic cups. Add in assists too.

The bottom line is footy is footy. Barca usually doesnt need much to win the groups (early cl) and when cl matters in march/april/may the team--not just suarez, is often burned out and the matches are 3-4 days after playing league matches we have prioritized just as much.

Messi already said barca don't prioritize competitions and we try to win everything. There's a reason we are the only club period with 2 trebles. Even farmers keague clubs cant do thst feat
 

Arizona Scott

New member
With all due respect, that is totally bullshit. There are players who are able to score goals as well as make a positive contribution to their team's overall play.

Suarez' record is partly because of the team, but also on him. His record is shocking for a player of his stature compared to literally every other relevant striker in the World.

I'll hope Suarez can quiet people up by stepping up in the CL too instead of looking like a dead fish there.

Meanwhile you can guys can talk about laymen not understanding football while adding zero to the discussion, zero argument, zero counter-arguments, zero contribution whatsoever than blind fanboyism and digging your heads in the sand.

Those 24 games are more than relevant considering it stretches from 2016 to 2019 as of right now.

But why would you start at 2016, seems arbitrary, considering his two best years in the CL were right before. That would be called cherry picking your data. Why not also tally assists? Wait I just did that using the years you picked, here is the tally, Firmino 7 Suarez 7, Griezmann 6, Aguero 5, Cavani 3, Kane 3, Lewa 2. That sure adds some different interpretation right there. In fact Luis in the CL in his career has 20 goals and 16 assists across 48 matches. His goal right is slightly down from his career rate, but his assist rate is slightly more. There just isn't much to read into, one or two big games can flip numbers, you point out Firmino but he just had a season and half (small smaple size) and I can assure you the goal and assist rates won't continue at those rates because it is out of step with his league rates (lots of games to base his rates on).

Further, I am not sure what you argument is. Somehow the CL matches football is played different, and Luis has forgotten how to play the game he has been world class for a decade at? Do you really think the intensity of a match like today, or in league vs Atletico or Real, and even at times say at Sevilla or at Bilboa or at Valencia in league at their place or later round CDR cup elimination or CDR final don't stack up to you average CL match in terms of intensity or level of footy played?

Some fans put extra wait in CL, and crazy fans suggest it is better to win a single if it because you outlast and get lucky on the way to winning a CL, over a domestic double that includes league titles that comes down to the best teams, less luck + say a domestic cup. But those are more of a causal fans (or fans of Bayern or Juve or PSG where league titles are a piece of cake compared to Spain or England) and I certainly don't think players and managers look at it this way (CL or nothing). Sir Alex isn't know as possibly the best manager in footy history for winning one CL per decade,, but giving Man U the English title record.

Atletico is a great case study. By and large they have had our number in the CL, we have had their number in league and CDR. It is not because we approach the match differently or they approach the match differently in one competition or another. The truth is we are a little better than them, but if they have their A game, and we make mistakes, or a bad call, we can lose a match or tie to them pretty easy. It is pretty much random when that has happened, twice it happened in the CL where we made mistakes and were punished. Almost opposite of Real vs Atletico. Atletico had some really bad luck in the CL where they could have easily won two, but lost one in a PK shoot out and Ramos saved Real in extra time in the other. Atletico's league and cup matches vs Real of late have largely broke for them. Which competition it happened (who wins, who loses) between these 3 teams is largely a matter of chance and not a product of one competition vs another.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Good game but it's not like this was unthinkable. Problem with him the last year or so was more that the good performances get rarer while his streaks of just playing bad get longer.

We already had "he's back!" moments this season but the last weeks were some of the worst performances he ever had. He is 32, i doubt he will really be "back" for an extended period of time anymore at this point.

Amazing he scored vs Real, but we still need a new striker.
 

Arizona Scott

New member
Good game but it's not like this was unthinkable. Problem with him the last year or so was more that the good performances get rarer while his streaks of just playing bad get longer.

We already had "he's back!" moments this season but the last weeks were some of the worst performances he ever had. He is 32, i doubt he will really be "back" for an extended period of time anymore at this point.

Amazing he scored vs Real, but we still need a new striker.

I agree we need a new striker. He is 32 and has bad knees. Also I think the less regular shifts he has to do the better his shifts can be when we might really need. Give him and average of half of every league match off from here on out. Next year (Jovic?Pepe?) we can have some real day in and day out alternatives and he can really be conserved for the biggest matches.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Luis Suarez together with Lionel Messi has had such an immense impact on Fc Barcelona that I fully expect one if not all three of the following things to happen, I'd be really disappointed otherwise :cheers:

1. Plaça Espaya is renamed Plaça Luis Suarez in honor of his unmatched achievments while Plaça Catalunya is renaned Plaça Lionel Messi.
2 A royal parade is held in their honor up and down and then up again Passeig de Gracia, attended by the spanish king and queen, whom obviously will perform the depest bow ever seen in the presence of such a geniuses
3 A naval gun salute is held in their honor at the port of Barcelona every sunday at 3 o clock for a full year following both retirement.

Careful your fanboy is leaking. It's heresy to compare Suarez's impact to anywhere near Messi. Suarez has to do more in CL to even dream about having any of your honours you just mentioned.

Also I think the less regular shifts he has to do the better his shifts can be when we might really need.

Yeah Valgreen is really on top of that isn't he. Especially by signing a beast like Boateng and giving him regular playing time.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
He needs to stop trying to be a playmaker and do what he did in the 2nd half yesterday. Poach goals. Don't be involved in buildup, just score.

I lost all the hope for him to perform in CL, but now there is a new ray of hope.
 

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