Malcom

[xXKonan]

Never expected Valverde to be this heavily dependent on Veteran players. I mean he was put in a box at Bilbao but he did his job well at integrating youth over there.

The worst part is when you listen to his interview when he first signed he talks about incorporating La Masia and younger talents and how we need to trust the B team a lot more. But the biggest disappointment was that he didn't really live up to any of those promises he made.

Not a fan of both sides argument in this case as I feel a lot of the problems we have are much more on the manager than the players we have. I think a lot of it comes down to he isn't used to handling younger players at this caliber and prefers to just use the Vets instead.

 

[DonAK]

Real Madrid fans are biding their time until Messi is gone hoping this board and management messes up enough for Barca to have to play catch up for a few years from 2021 and onwards.

While hoping their own investments pays off.

Messi is such an anomaly that Barca can be competitive domestically even if the manager is far from ideal. The results without him starting under Valverde is not a good look. Especially considering some of the draws we managed to grind out in the end is the result of him changing the game completely in our favour.

He's probably having flashbacks to Argentina when even he came out after last game and said they have enough good players not to depend on one player(obviously him) all the time.

At a time of his career and age we should helping him more than ever we're asking Messi to do more than ever. Doubt it's going to help lengthen his career.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Should have stopped reading here.

Lol, Willian or Malcom is a no brainer, except in terms of overpaying Willian.
A proven top class player, several years playing for Chelsea, one of the best Brasilians at a World cup vs Malcom about whom we know nothing and who could easily end a total fail, except a good old: he is young and has potential

Aren't you always talking about how our team is too tired and old? Well with the experience > everything mindset that won't change anytime soon.

Malcom surely isn't a world beater and its not about just him but we can't add more and more 30yo players to plug the gaps, at some point we need a manager that can get the most out of a young player. Develop them on individual level, find the right approach mentally, give the team a tactical plan to fall back to what makes it a bit easier to throw them in etc because otherwise all the money spent on young players will be wasted and we should just stick to buying the Vidals and Willians on big wages and keep them 2-3 seasons. But we don't exclusively do that, we also buy players like Arthur and Malcom, we promote talents like Alena and Miranda. That just doesn't add up, if not for money we are at least wasting time doing that.

Its still start of the season but if Valverde continues like that he better wins big because if he doesn't develop young players, plays boring football AND goes out early in CL again its another wasted year and surely his last at the club.

Not every talent has what it takes to help us and its rather early in his 2nd season but to me it doesn't look like Valverde has any interest in any of that but it is a part of his job as well. He can't just play terrible football with the same experienced players over and over and get away with that for too long unless he sweeps the competitions. As soon as results start to drop a little bit he will get criticized hard because he has nothing left going for him and we might already be at this point if the hard October isn't successful.

 

[serghei]

Lol, do people still doubt Valverde is the definition of average?

 

[Total-Football]

the size of our squad is not healthy that was obvious.. we are overweight. players like rafinha, denis suarez and munir should have been sold at any price.. any.

 

[BBZ8800]

Aren't you always talking about how our team is too tired and old? Well with the experience > everything mindset that won't change anytime soon.

Malcom surely isn't a world beater and its not about just him but we can't add more and more 30yo players to plug the gaps, at some point we need a manager that can get the most out of a young player. Develop them on individual level, find the right approach mentally, give the team a tactical plan to fall back to what makes it a bit easier to throw them in etc because otherwise all the money spent on young players will be wasted and we should just stick to buying the Vidals and Willians on big wages and keep them 2-3 seasons. But we don't exclusively do that, we also buy players like Arthur and Malcom, we promote talents like Alena and Miranda. That just doesn't add up, if not for money we are at least wasting time doing that.

The problem is similar to:
If Roberto sucks as a RB, that doesn't make Semedo a better player (himself).
If Semedo sucks in the 2nd game, Roberto still sucks, irelevant of how Semedo played.

So, yes. We need younger players who can run and play well.
But that DOESN'T make Arthur, Malcom and similar=those guys.
They are young, true. But whether they have skills to be those guys, time will tell.

Imo, majority of fans look at any young new signing as: he is the long term solution, he is the guy.
For example, imo, if you would make a poll right now:
1. Guys, do you think that Arthur will be an awesome player in 4 years:
Yes
No
2. Guys, do you think that Dembele will be good enough to be a player around whom we should build a team in 3-4 years:
Yes
No
3. Guys, do you think that Malcom will be good enough in 3 years to be a starter here, or at least a very, very good sub winger?
Yes
No

I guess that in every of these 3 question, the answer Yes would get 50, 60, 70 or 80% of votes on this forum.

And THAT is a problem.
You see, if you look at stats, numbers and history, probably any NEW signing at Barca has like 33% of chances to make it here.
While any YOUNGER (aged 18-22) new player coming to Barca probably has 10-20% chances to stay and make it at Barca.

So, if you ask ME about these guys, I am looking at them this way:
1. Dembele, will he make it?
Well, usual young players have 10-20% chances of making it here. Since he has lots of talent, he probably has higher chances, like 30-40%. But not more than that.
2. Arthur, will he make it here?
He is an average, textbook example of a classical young talent. His chances aren't higher than 20%, imo, like with all young players.
3. Malcom, will he make it here?
The same as Arthur, his chances are probably around 20%.

** If someone will say that I am pulling numbers from my ass, I think that numbers are more or less like this if you take all signings for Barca from the last 20 years into an account.
I know that each player is unique, but still it is statistically crazy to expect for example:
1. that we will get 4 awesome Bteam players turning into Ateam players in a space of 2 years
2. or if we'll buy 4 young players that more than 2 of them will be here in 3 years

So, you can call me a negative fan, but that's just reality, stats and numbers game.
Every single player coming here has way higher chances to fail than to succeed. Regardless of his skills, motivation, a coach.
And for young players, it is even way worse.

Look, I personally really wanted to like Malcom, since I have zero faith in Dembele.
But from what I have seen in preseason and in 2-3 cameos, he really looks like slightly more technical version of Munir, except he is a winger.
Nothing special, not too fast. And unfamiliar with our system.

In today's football majority of wingers are very, very fast and good dribblers.
Since Malcom is not that fast, from the start, I have no idea how high are his chances to ever be a top class winger, especially Barca's winger.

About Malcom further, maybe he is easily neutralized on training grounds by our players, so EV thinks that he is not good enough.
Or in overall, his skillset is just meh when he sees him every day on training grounds with other of our 20 players.

Also, if we have 20 players, one of our 20 players needs to be the worst player of Barca.
That is not actually an insult, but at the end of a day=someone needs to be the worst guy at Barca.

And imagine when a coach and his staff come to training grounds, watch player's skills, training matches, rondos and everything:
They surely have a list:
Messi is the best. Cou or Busi is the 2nd best etc.
But also, they have a list: Denis/Malcom/XX is the least good out of our 20 players.

Maybe Malcom is the least good player in EV's eyes.
For example, on my list, our least good players in this moment are:
1. Samper, Miranda
2. Denis/Malcom/Munir
3. Vermaelen
4. Semedo
Alena is here also.

Again, each of us has it's own list.
Last season, on the bottom of EV's list were: Deulofeu, Denis, Digne, Paco, Mina.
4 of them are gone, so some players needed to get their spots on the bottom.

I am not trolling, I am dead serious.
Imagine if you were Barca's coach today.
Who would be your 4 worst players of our team in this moment whom would you leave out of squad lists on majority of matches? (You can't put Gks here)
= majority will put: Denis, Munir, Rafinha, Vermaelen, Samper.
Since you lost faith in those guys and you want to see shiny new toys on a field, which is natural.
But whether new toys have better skills than these guys who have failed, that is another story, inspite of their 40m pricetags.

 

[tacticvarium]

the size of our squad is not healthy that was obvious.. we are overweight. players like rafinha, denis suarez and munir should have been sold at any price.. any.

Wonder what happened to Valverde wanting the smaller squad.
His words and actions always do not correspond.

 

[El Gato]

You're asking or telling me/us to stay quiet and be humble. Because of what lol? The potential of us doing worse?

Lol, this also I find as a bit of a strange thing I notice - that somehow people take "I advise you to" as an order. Like, what? Why?

And yes, actually I think you got the reason right. Especially given what you wrote in the following sentence and the fact that possibly the most plausible current alternative to not employ an assertive approach from the back has been sacked by Everton after a year. Unless Setien is a candidate too. Which is a bit amusing.

I think long term this current iteration of Barca is performing just under its ceiling. And no fancy Brazillian toys fix this sort of slump from month to month.

PS Being quiet is not the same as being humble. Continuity observations are the ones that count and are a legit criticism that do not stink of mindlessly echoing frustration, not some irrelevant 3rd keeper desperation posts.

Well I suppose with this board everything is possible, but Valverde is not going to survive here for the long haul anyway as he's going to end up destroying his little castle made of dogshit in the end anyway.

No he won't, I agree. Probably not anyway. And sacking will be very easy given how disliked he is. What's the big deal? The board have a plan on what to do when you do finally get rid of him, right?.... right?

At a time of his career and age we should helping him more than ever we're asking Messi to do more than ever. Doubt it's going to help lengthen his career.

Except he's not helping himself either. Shouldn't want to touch the armband and pretend to be an inspirational go-to-leader given what he already has on his plate.

 

[serghei]

Relax guys, however shit we are, Madrid is too. Lopetegui is just as shit as Valverde. I wouldn't be surprised if we win La Liga again playing like crap most of the time.

 

[MTL_Barca]

The problem is similar to:
If Roberto sucks as a RB, that doesn't make Semedo a better player (himself).
If Semedo sucks in the 2nd game, Roberto still sucks, irelevant of how Semedo played.

So, yes. We need younger players who can run and play well.
But that DOESN'T make Arthur, Malcom and similar=those guys.
They are young, true. But whether they have skills to be those guys, time will tell.

Imo, majority of fans look at any young new signing as: he is the long term solution, he is the guy.
For example, imo, if you would make a poll right now:
1. Guys, do you think that Arthur will be an awesome player in 4 years:
Yes
No
2. Guys, do you think that Dembele will be good enough to be a player around whom we should build a team in 3-4 years:
Yes
No
3. Guys, do you think that Malcom will be good enough in 3 years to be a starter here, or at least a very, very good sub winger?
Yes
No

I guess that in every of these 3 question, the answer Yes would get 50, 60, 70 or 80% of votes on this forum.

And THAT is a problem.
You see, if you look at stats, numbers and history, probably any NEW signing at Barca has like 33% of chances to make it here.
While any YOUNGER (aged 18-22) new player coming to Barca probably has 10-20% chances to stay and make it at Barca.

So, if you ask ME about these guys, I am looking at them this way:
1. Dembele, will he make it?
Well, usual young players have 10-20% chances of making it here. Since he has lots of talent, he probably has higher chances, like 30-40%. But not more than that.
2. Arthur, will he make it here?
He is an average, textbook example of a classical young talent. His chances aren't higher than 20%, imo, like with all young players.
3. Malcom, will he make it here?
The same as Arthur, his chances are probably around 20%.

** If someone will say that I am pulling numbers from my ass, I think that numbers are more or less like this if you take all signings for Barca from the last 20 years into an account.
I know that each player is unique, but still it is statistically crazy to expect for example:
1. that we will get 4 awesome Bteam players turning into Ateam players in a space of 2 years
2. or if we'll buy 4 young players that more than 2 of them will be here in 3 years

So, you can call me a negative fan, but that's just reality, stats and numbers game.
Every single player coming here has way higher chances to fail than to succeed. Regardless of his skills, motivation, a coach.
And for young players, it is even way worse.

Look, I personally really wanted to like Malcom, since I have zero faith in Dembele.
But from what I have seen in preseason and in 2-3 cameos, he really looks like slightly more technical version of Munir, except he is a winger.
Nothing special, not too fast. And unfamiliar with our system.

In today's football majority of wingers are very, very fast and good dribblers.
Since Malcom is not that fast, from the start, I have no idea how high are his chances to ever be a top class winger, especially Barca's winger.

About Malcom further, maybe he is easily neutralized on training grounds by our players, so EV thinks that he is not good enough.
Or in overall, his skillset is just meh when he sees him every day on training grounds with other of our 20 players.

Also, if we have 20 players, one of our 20 players needs to be the worst player of Barca.
That is not actually an insult, but at the end of a day=someone needs to be the worst guy at Barca.

And imagine when a coach and his staff come to training grounds, watch player's skills, training matches, rondos and everything:
They surely have a list:
Messi is the best. Cou or Busi is the 2nd best etc.
But also, they have a list: Denis/Malcom/XX is the least good out of our 20 players.

Maybe Malcom is the least good player in EV's eyes.
For example, on my list, our least good players in this moment are:
1. Samper, Miranda
2. Denis/Malcom/Munir
3. Vermaelen
4. Semedo
Alena is here also.

Again, each of us has it's own list.
Last season, on the bottom of EV's list were: Deulofeu, Denis, Digne, Paco, Mina.
4 of them are gone, so some players needed to get their spots on the bottom.

I am not trolling, I am dead serious.
Imagine if you were Barca's coach today.
Who would be your 4 worst players of our team in this moment whom would you leave out of squad lists on majority of matches? (You can't put Gks here)
= majority will put: Denis, Munir, Rafinha, Vermaelen, Samper.
Since you lost faith in those guys and you want to see shiny new toys on a field, which is natural.
But whether new toys have better skills than these guys who have failed, that is another story, inspite of their 40m pricetags.

All of that doesn't make Valverde a better coach. I refuse to believe our whole squad and especially the young players all completely suck or can't play any better. Just like i refuse to believe United only has shit players and guys like Martial are way too bad for them. Valverde is just our own version of Mourinho. Mou will be gone soon, will be interesting to see if all their squad really is utter shit or if it was just Mourinho doing his thing once again.

And back to Valverde...he is in charge and entitled to his opinion. But this far he didn't make a single player better, no la masia talent made it, his football looks boring and there is basically no development in any area. You can't deny that. Once he starts losing he has nothing left because the only thing he had going for him since he joined us was results.

 

[serghei]

I personally never said this and it seems like it's the only takeaway many here get from the opposing viewpoints - I, and I assume many others but can speak for myself only, don't think Valverde is always right. In fact I said multiple times he's Barcelona's Schuster, but not impossible for him to surpass that level. For a guy like him or Mou cases are more nuanced and interesting than they seem. By all means, criticise, it's what will make him change the wrong things (i.e. Gomes). But perhaps would be useful to not devolve it into some simple representation... I for one would advise the fans here stay humble and don't think they know better than the qualified managers do. Almost never proves to be right.

I usually agree with this very much in principle, but not for some occupations that are more jobs than professions. You make it sound as if being a manager is like being a brain surgeon. Very not so. Some fans could have a deeper interpretation and vision about football than actual managers, just like how some amateurs write better and are more documented than some actual journalists.

There is a difference between a profession and a job. Being a Barca manager is a job, one everyone can suck at. Valverde doesn't get a free pass strictly by using professional expertise, because there isn't any in this case.

 

[El Gato]

I usually agree with this very much, but not for some occupations that are more jobs than professions. You make it sound as if being a manager is like being a brain surgeon.

Well forgive I disagree with an implication that it is in fact some mere job that anyone who has kicked a ball in their life can learn to do and at that level too. Managing personalities and skills of the world's best seniors and talents while having almost corporate responsibility for the represented brand isn't so piss easy... Anyone who has been a manager or supervised human resources at any level will see some parallels to the challenges EV has to face up to every day. In the same way, anybody who has been a worker all their life that was told what to do and when to do it will almost never be able to relate. That's something that seems to be very common on discussion boards, particularly when fans confess to what it is they do on a daily basis.

 

[BBZ8800]

And back to Valverde...he is in charge and entitled to his opinion. But this far he didn't make a single player better, no la masia talent made it, his football looks boring and there is basically no development in any area. You can't deny that. Once he starts losing he has nothing left because the only thing he had going for him since he joined us was results.

How many of our players got better after 2012?
Xavi declined
Iniesta also
Busi also
Messi also
Alves also
Pedro also

Mats improved.
Umtiti improved

Our core players are all aged 30, 31.
They are losing physical skills rapidly.
And when you are slower and when you have a weaker stamina, you are slowly weaker in everything:
Off the ball movement, forward runs, counters, defending, transition, 1 vs 1 duel, arial duels etc.

So, it is quite natural that majority of our players are getting worse each new Month, regardless of Valverde.
I posted several times: Mane, Firmino, Salah are all aged 26.
Of course that they improved from the age 23-24 to 26.
Has Klopp turned any 30 into a better player under him? No.
He sold all 30 years old since they are past their prime and they can't run that much anymore.

We had 4 coaches after Pep, and we got like 2-3 players who improved in their skills during in 7 years.
Regarding La Masia, well, La Masia worked like this always.
But due to our golden lucky generation, tons of fans started to believe that we are producing pure magic in our youth academy and that La Masia is actually better than youth academy from Real, Juve, Bayern or Man Utd.
Other teams are not idiots. We are now on their level, which means: 1-2 okish guys over 5 years, more or less.

Regardless of EV:
1. our core players are weaker and weaker each new year due to their age
2. regardless of EV, La Masia is not as magical as people think

About boring football, that thing is true.
But then, can you get (way) more than that with 30 years old players and with young players who are good on paper but questionable in reality (Dembele with 67% passing accuracy and lacking in football basics, Arthur tired after 30 minutes and playing backpasses for now, Malcom, nobody knows anything about this guy).

Look, my post may sound as if:
Valverde is good.
Well, he probably isn't too good.

But my feeling is that he isn't nowhere as bad as people think.
Our team is quite old and weaker each new Month.
And youngsters are nowhere near as good as people think.

With our current squad, EV is probably doing a decent job.
His 442 last season probably tried to solve problems of our aging midfield and lazy attackers.

 

[Cule4life]

BBZ says our squad is too old

But then says he'll take Willian over Malcom.

BBZ is as confused as a contestant on the bachelorette.

BBZ will twist any argument as he sees fit as long as it suits his agenda of Valverde worship

 

[Potroh]

And unfamiliar with our system.

Under Valverde "our system" is non-existing, hence all the other problems...