Mario Gotze

[Superfly]

ITT: A valid move to take your career to the next level = gloryhunting

 

[AnfieldEd]

Thanks for pointing out the rivalries correct, because Dortmund-Bayern rivalry is indeed pretty recent (although they were rivals in the mid-late 90s too).

Other than that, the last paragraph contains a lot of wrongness.

1. Bayern have a rampant history of systematically weakening league opponents: Some examples to put things into perspective:

- Calle de Haye and Lothar Matthäus from Borussia Mönchengladbach in the eighties, weakening the only real rival in the league.

- Mid-eighties: Nürnberg becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign Hans Dorfner, Stefan Reuter, Roland Grahammer and Manfred Schwabl, effectively banishing Nürnberg to mid table again.

- 1989: Köln become a serious competitor: Bayern buy their by far best and most important player Jürgen Kohler.

- 90s: KSC becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign over the course of a few years Michael Sternkopf, Oliver Kreuzer, Mehmet Scholl, Oliver Kahn, Thorsten Fink and Michael Tarnat. In 1998, KSC goes to second division

- 1991: Kaiserslautern wins the league: Bayern buy Bruno Labbadia. Two years later, they buy Marcel Witeczeck and Ciriaco Sforza. 1994, Kaiserslautern go to second division

- 1995: Bremen become a serious competitor: Bayern buy Andreas Herzog and sign Rehhagel, one year later they buy Basler too. And the Bremen-case repeats here: 2005 they buy Ismael, two years later Klose, 2008 they buy Borowski. They even signed Jan Schlaudraff just so that Bremen can't get him.

- Stuttgart case: Bayern destroy the 'magic triangle' by signing Giovane Elber.

- Around the turn of the millenium, Leverkusen becomes a strong opponent: 2001 Bayern sign Kovac, 2002 it's Ballack and Ze Roberto, Lucio in 2004.

I'll stop here and believe me, this list goes on and on and on. Trying to relativize that with the Reus-transfer is inappropriate. And fyi, Dortmund signed players from Bundesliga teams too - but not to systematically drive them out of competition, unlike Bayern, who have a recurring scheme here. Götze and probably Lewa are a part of this scheme.

2. Klopp is a mindgame specialist, at least equal to Mourinho. Comparing him with Hoeneß though is not going to happen, because at no point did Klopp try to destroy careers, much unlike Hoeneß. Google what he did to Willi Lemke, to Christoph Daum or the referee Helmut Krug or to the management of 1860 München for that matter.

Excellent post.

 

[Mr Hulot]

Thanks for pointing out the rivalries correct, because Dortmund-Bayern rivalry is indeed pretty recent (although they were rivals in the mid-late 90s too).

Other than that, the last paragraph contains a lot of wrongness.

1. Bayern have a rampant history of systematically weakening league opponents: Some examples to put things into perspective:

- Calle de Haye and Lothar Matthäus from Borussia Mönchengladbach in the eighties, weakening the only real rival in the league.

- Mid-eighties: Nürnberg becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign Hans Dorfner, Stefan Reuter, Roland Grahammer and Manfred Schwabl, effectively banishing Nürnberg to mid table again.

- 1989: Köln become a serious competitor: Bayern buy their by far best and most important player Jürgen Kohler.

- 90s: KSC becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign over the course of a few years Michael Sternkopf, Oliver Kreuzer, Mehmet Scholl, Oliver Kahn, Thorsten Fink and Michael Tarnat. In 1998, KSC goes to second division

- 1991: Kaiserslautern wins the league: Bayern buy Bruno Labbadia. Two years later, they buy Marcel Witeczeck and Ciriaco Sforza. 1994, Kaiserslautern go to second division

- 1995: Bremen become a serious competitor: Bayern buy Andreas Herzog and sign Rehhagel, one year later they buy Basler too. And the Bremen-case repeats here: 2005 they buy Ismael, two years later Klose, 2008 they buy Borowski. They even signed Jan Schlaudraff just so that Bremen can't get him.

- Stuttgart case: Bayern destroy the 'magic triangle' by signing Giovane Elber.

- Around the turn of the millenium, Leverkusen becomes a strong opponent: 2001 Bayern sign Kovac, 2002 it's Ballack and Ze Roberto, Lucio in 2004.

I'll stop here and believe me, this list goes on and on and on. Trying to relativize that with the Reus-transfer is inappropriate. And fyi, Dortmund signed players from Bundesliga teams too - but not to systematically drive them out of competition, unlike Bayern, who have a recurring scheme here. Götze and probably Lewa are a part of this scheme.

2. Klopp is a mindgame specialist, at least equal to Mourinho. Comparing him with Hoeneß though is not going to happen, because at no point did Klopp try to destroy careers, much unlike Hoeneß. Google what he did to Willi Lemke, to Christoph Daum or the referee Helmut Krug or to the management of 1860 München for that matter.

 

[DonAndres]

ITT: A valid move to take your career to the next level = gloryhunting

Don't just address one small part of the argument to refute completely. Taking one's career to the next level is understandable, a transfer that countless players make. However what Gotze did was betray his boyhood club, move to their biggest rivals, and became a pawn in re-monopolizing the Bundesliga for Bayern. On top of that the reason was because he got a phone call from Pep to join Bayern and help lead his new project and so he jumped ship without a second thought. There was no loyalty in his decision; he didn't think of the damage to Dortmund, he didn't have the will to deny what seems like an exciting offer to gain glory.

By the way, DennyCrane that was a truly excellent post. You've went far back into Bundesliga history to pull out evidence for a completely true and factual point.

 

[Superfly]

However what Gotze did was betray his boyhood club

He was born in Bavaria and it's been said various times that he was a Bayern supporter?

move to their biggest rivals

Dortmund's biggest rival is Schalke, not Bayern.

On top of that the reason was because he got a phone call from Pep to join Bayern and help lead his new project and so he jumped ship without a second thought. There was no loyalty in his decision; he didn't think of the damage to Dortmund, he didn't have the will to deny what seems like an exciting offer to gain glory.

What exactly is wrong with this?

 

[DonAndres]

He was born in Bavaria and it's been said various times that he was a Bayern supporter

As a child, yes. Same as how when Iniesta was young he said that he dreamt of playing for Real Madrid. However as a player of the club he should be loyal to them and respect the club enough not to betray them for his own personal desires. Wanting to further his career is one thing, but it's disrespectful to move to league rivals to tip the competition instead of moving to an outside league so that there is less damage to Dortmund.

No point in getting witty and saying "Shalke are their greatest rivals" because Bayern are their rivals in terms of biggest competition for the league title, which is the biggest focus for them. He moved to the rivals that will ultimately dominate the league and keep them from progressing and winning silverware.

Lastly, it's wrong because he completely ignored the damage to his own club and forgot about his loyalty to join a side just because Pep seduced him with success. IMO that's low standards and he should have at least thought about the club on the same level as his personal endeavors.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Thanks for pointing out the rivalries correct, because Dortmund-Bayern rivalry is indeed pretty recent (although they were rivals in the mid-late 90s too).

Other than that, the last paragraph contains a lot of wrongness.

1. Bayern have a rampant history of systematically weakening league opponents: Some examples to put things into perspective:

- Calle de Haye and Lothar Matthäus from Borussia Mönchengladbach in the eighties, weakening the only real rival in the league.

- Mid-eighties: Nürnberg becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign Hans Dorfner, Stefan Reuter, Roland Grahammer and Manfred Schwabl, effectively banishing Nürnberg to mid table again.

- 1989: Köln become a serious competitor: Bayern buy their by far best and most important player Jürgen Kohler.

- 90s: KSC becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign over the course of a few years Michael Sternkopf, Oliver Kreuzer, Mehmet Scholl, Oliver Kahn, Thorsten Fink and Michael Tarnat. In 1998, KSC goes to second division

- 1991: Kaiserslautern wins the league: Bayern buy Bruno Labbadia. Two years later, they buy Marcel Witeczeck and Ciriaco Sforza. 1994, Kaiserslautern go to second division

- 1995: Bremen become a serious competitor: Bayern buy Andreas Herzog and sign Rehhagel, one year later they buy Basler too. And the Bremen-case repeats here: 2005 they buy Ismael, two years later Klose, 2008 they buy Borowski. They even signed Jan Schlaudraff just so that Bremen can't get him.

- Stuttgart case: Bayern destroy the 'magic triangle' by signing Giovane Elber.

- Around the turn of the millenium, Leverkusen becomes a strong opponent: 2001 Bayern sign Kovac, 2002 it's Ballack and Ze Roberto, Lucio in 2004.

I'll stop here and believe me, this list goes on and on and on. Trying to relativize that with the Reus-transfer is inappropriate. And fyi, Dortmund signed players from Bundesliga teams too - but not to systematically drive them out of competition, unlike Bayern, who have a recurring scheme here. Götze and probably Lewa are a part of this scheme.

2. Klopp is a mindgame specialist, at least equal to Mourinho. Comparing him with Hoeneß though is not going to happen, because at no point did Klopp try to destroy careers, much unlike Hoeneß. Google what he did to Willi Lemke, to Christoph Daum or the referee Helmut Krug or to the management of 1860 München for that matter.

this

ITT: A valid move to take your career to the next level = gloryhunting

I really doubt it is a valid move ,there is a lot of risk joining bayern ,spcially on long term ,I mean non of Klose or Gomez have been able to stick there as a starter for long time ,one bad season is enough for Bayern to decide to buy a replacement and move you from the club ,they aren't exactly the most loyal to their players ,not to mention their fans would never forgive a player if he has done the same thing ,Ballack decided the same thing and moved to Chelsea ,It was considered a betrayal and most Bayern fan hate him for that ,forgetting he has done the same thing when he moved to them
On the other hand BVB was having a huge project ,this is a very young and good team who was just exploring what they can do ,he could have made himself as one of the club legends , look at how BVB fans love Kehl even though he was never that gr8
I think a case cane be made for BVB to be a better situation on long term for Gotze ,you can ask Frings

 

[Ursegor]

€ 40 million for Götze is good money. Klopp will buy 5 unknown players from the J-League for € 2 million each and they'll all be superior than Götze. Klopp.

 

[loozy]

Thanks for pointing out the rivalries correct, because Dortmund-Bayern rivalry is indeed pretty recent (although they were rivals in the mid-late 90s too).

Other than that, the last paragraph contains a lot of wrongness.

1. Bayern have a rampant history of systematically weakening league opponents: Some examples to put things into perspective:

- Calle de Haye and Lothar Matthäus from Borussia Mönchengladbach in the eighties, weakening the only real rival in the league.

- Mid-eighties: Nürnberg becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign Hans Dorfner, Stefan Reuter, Roland Grahammer and Manfred Schwabl, effectively banishing Nürnberg to mid table again.

- 1989: Köln become a serious competitor: Bayern buy their by far best and most important player Jürgen Kohler.

- 90s: KSC becomes a serious contender: Bayern sign over the course of a few years Michael Sternkopf, Oliver Kreuzer, Mehmet Scholl, Oliver Kahn, Thorsten Fink and Michael Tarnat. In 1998, KSC goes to second division

- 1991: Kaiserslautern wins the league: Bayern buy Bruno Labbadia. Two years later, they buy Marcel Witeczeck and Ciriaco Sforza. 1994, Kaiserslautern go to second division

- 1995: Bremen become a serious competitor: Bayern buy Andreas Herzog and sign Rehhagel, one year later they buy Basler too. And the Bremen-case repeats here: 2005 they buy Ismael, two years later Klose, 2008 they buy Borowski. They even signed Jan Schlaudraff just so that Bremen can't get him.

- Stuttgart case: Bayern destroy the 'magic triangle' by signing Giovane Elber.

- Around the turn of the millenium, Leverkusen becomes a strong opponent: 2001 Bayern sign Kovac, 2002 it's Ballack and Ze Roberto, Lucio in 2004.

I'll stop here and believe me, this list goes on and on and on. Trying to relativize that with the Reus-transfer is inappropriate. And fyi, Dortmund signed players from Bundesliga teams too - but not to systematically drive them out of competition, unlike Bayern, who have a recurring scheme here. Götze and probably Lewa are a part of this scheme.

2. Klopp is a mindgame specialist, at least equal to Mourinho. Comparing him with Hoeneß though is not going to happen, because at no point did Klopp try to destroy careers, much unlike Hoeneß. Google what he did to Willi Lemke, to Christoph Daum or the referee Helmut Krug or to the management of 1860 München for that matter.

:thumbsup2:

You just listed the reason why I will never ever ever ever like Bayern. KSC is my hometown club and I played for their youth teams and it killed me and the club when Bayern came waving their money.

This is just what they do and while van Gaal helped shift the focus more towards the youth team, the only weapon that Bayern has against other, stronger teams, is their money. And if we like it or not, there are few true one-team-players left; Götze never struck me as one of them and it was only a question of time when he would leave Dortmund, especially give that his release clause was not that high (after all, Bayern happily paid 40 million for Javi).

As for Klopp: he's a psychopath and I cannot stand it; I don't find his antics and attacks on the fourth official not amusing but often also disrespectful. He has never been properly fined because he is THE hot thing at the moment but he needs someone to counsel him on his antics.

 

[Irish_Cules]

raphael honigstein ‏@honigstein 32m
. @SPORTBILD report that Götze turned down a €20m per year offer from Man City last month. that's GBP 331k per week...

 

[Irish_Cules]

Torn hamstring for Gotze apparently. He might miss the final.

 

[rivaldo10]

if bayern isnt behind this

 

[loozy]

He's going to miss the league match against Bayern for sure

 

[Micah]

Fucking shame this guy didn't join us, if we had alteast shown some interest, im sure we could have managed to turn his head. But with Rossell's love affair with Neymar im sure he must have made no attempt.

But his move to Bayern is truely shocking. I never would have imagined that he would leave BVB so soon, and definitely not to Bayern. Complete lack of respect to a team that has made him into the player he is today. Atleast a move abroad would have been less damaging to their fans and team. BVB had the potential to be one of the best teams in Europe and he could have been at the heart of all things. Disgust me when players show such disloyalty.

One of the most shocking transfers imo in recent times. Lost alot of respect I had for this guy

 

[Indignado]

There's no place for him at our club. We don't need any midfielders and we probably won't need any in the next 10 years.