Martin Montoya

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
Your points are fair, not going to argue with you. I think you got me wrong, or I didn't express myself correctly.
First of all, I didn't say those we're the reasons he's been playing "worse" this season, cause honestly I don't see why people say so, except for his bad crosses.

1. Again, not saying this is the reason, but it might be playing a factor in motivation (not only for Montoya, but other La Masia players as well) if the first team coach doesn't trust young players (I experienced it first hand), you can't expect them to give it their all for so long and still not getting their chances.
However he's played a lot this year, and I think he's shown, along with Bartra, that he's one of the best defenders Barca will have. Whether you'd want to admit that is another matter.

2. A fullback is a fullback, and his first priority is to defend, which Montoya does really well (deny however you want), and I bet you if you play him in CB everyone will be amazed (I hope Tata tries it out in friendlies - Puyol was a RB when he was younger, and they tend to do well when converted to CB). Going forward is also not one of Montoya's weaknesses (cause every La Masia defender should be able to do so) and he's assisted a number of goals this year because of that. I do however believe he should be working on his crosses, but that's just training.

There is a sense of "Barca fullbacks must always go forward" nowadays, but that's exactly the reason why the defense has been suffering. I'd say play Alves and Adriano (who's defending sometimes can be suspicious like one of the goals scored by Real Sociedad Saturday) or Montoya and Alba, and let one go forward and the other remain at defense (I think it's clear that Barca, under Pep, mostly played 3-4-3, with a fullback acting as a CB and the other going forward, nowadays it's more of a 2-5-3 at times, and that leaves the defense open).

3. Yes, chances given, but if he plays well let him continue, which was not the case. And I agree you have to earn your position, but frankly even Bartra earned it over the likes of Pique and Mascherano, but even then he wasn't playing as much as he "deserved" to. Alves played badly for some time this year (again, you'll probably deny this to forward your case), and he still got to play or worse, Adriano (who is a far worse defender - not offensive help - than Montoya) played in RB, while he's mainly the LB cover.
I remember a match when Tata was shouting because of Montoya's cross, but he was playing really sound defensively. Why not tell him to stay back and let the other fullback go forward or let him go through the middle. I bet you if Montoya and Alba play together, which doesn't happen enough, Barca'd be good on defense and offense.

Finally, playing regulars in and out, even if they under-perform in several matches (that's been the case for most defenders, and more so for Pique), leads to complacency (you say they should earn it, but that goes for the regulars as well). It also leads to injuries and ultimately to the downfall of the team. Again, Pique is a very good example. Pique was playing very bad last year and people wanted him out. I said then, that he just needs competition and rest, and some on here laughed at the idea. Come this year and Bartra performs well and guess what? Pique does well too! Coincidence? I'd say no. Let there be a fair competition between them and keep everything fresh. Martino's rotations were really good at the end of last year, but for some reason, it's been lacking lately, while defensive rotation has not been good to begin with.

When you don't trust young players, you create a gap between the older and younger players and that turns against you the next few years. You tend to forget that the players (from the least to the greatest) is what makes the club, whether you're Barcelona or a third devision team. No need to be all "this is Barcelona, we deserve better youth" cause then there's no evolution. Players can only play so much years before ageing, look at Puyol, who everyone wishes could play forever. And even the established players started out shaky (even Xavi and Iniesta, who people didn't really notice until they were older). Barcelona is the best because they teach and motivate really talented players to be the best, not because they are already the best when they start out. That's why I like Puyol's attitude, cause at least he's willing to teach Bartra some things, and that's why Pep, who had the guts to trust young players and punish complacent ones is the best coach Barcelona has ever had. And that's why Eusebio should be replaced as fast as possible.

Sorry for the long post. You most likely won't agree with me on most points (if not all), but that's just my 2 cents.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, however don't say that I'm "denying" your perspective because "I'm trying to forward my case". To say that I'm "denying" your case is as if you consider it factual and I'm just blind to reality.

You are severely overrating Montoya, based on what seems to be only your opinion without a basis on facts. The facts show that statistically speaking, Montoya is not a plus defender. Stats also show that Montoya is actually no better than Adriano and is in fact, worse than Alves defensively. Offensively speaking, Montoya is appreciably inferior to both as well.

You are intent on seeing a plus defender in Montoya, but that just is not reality. The comparisons to Abidal are just befuddling. Further suggestions he can play CB are just mindbending.

You're also intent on saying Montoya has not been trusted this season, yet he has started 14 games and has played more games and more minutes than Jordi Alba, and is not that far off from both Alves and Adriano in games and minutes played.

He has been given more than enough opportunity befitting a 4th depth fullback. Your opinion is he has performed well and that he is a strong defender and an above average attacker. I strongly disagree with that.

Edit: To clarify, I don't think he cannot improve and I don't think he has been bad this season. I just don't agree he has set himself apart in any particular area to merit more than he has gotten, nor do I personally see a mountain of talent. IMHO he is just a good player for a lesser team, but for Barca he'll always be found wanting.
 
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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
I think it's a matter of time and confidence with Montoya. He hasn't earned a starting position and is getting a fair amount of time given his performances, but I feel like he will show his quality whether it be this season or next. Last season he showed he's a very good defensive fullback, this season it hasn't been like that but I feel like he'll eventually stabilize. He isn't an offensive player, more passive on the flank and providing attacking support only when needed. That being said, he's still managed more assists than Alves has this season (3 to 2) so it's not like Alves is maintaining his previous godly contribution to attack while Montoya is incapable. We'll see how things unfold, a definite judgement should be withheld as we haven't consistently seen the best of him yet to judge whether his ceiling is too low.
 

Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
I think it's a matter of time and confidence with Montoya. He hasn't earned a starting position and is getting a fair amount of time given his performances, but I feel like he will show his quality whether it be this season or next. Last season he showed he's a very good defensive fullback, this season it hasn't been like that but I feel like he'll eventually stabilize. He isn't an offensive player, more passive on the flank and providing attacking support only when needed. That being said, he's still managed more assists than Alves has this season (3 to 2) so it's not like Alves is maintaining his previous godly contribution to attack while Montoya is incapable. We'll see how things unfold, a definite judgement should be withheld as we haven't consistently seen the best of him yet to judge whether his ceiling is too low.

Yeah I'll reserve future and final judgement for a greater sample size. I just haven't seen anything to impress me yet.
 

The Observer

New member
It's just puzzling that Montoya is seen as a defensively sound fullback. In a way that people would even draw comparisons to Abidal. He really isn't. He is not as good as Alves going forward and that's all. And forget the assist stats, anyone who watches the games can see Alves dominating his flank and Montoya not even close to doing that. City away, Milan comeback, PSG away. In 2 of those 3 big games Alves was chosen the official MOTM and in the other one he played a very crucial role. Those are some of Barca's most recent CL knockout games. Superb Clasico performance as well. Defensively and offensively (DAT nutmeg humiliation). Montoya isn't even close to that kind of level and never will be. No idea why people rubbish Alves so much. Yes, occasionally there is space behind his back but that's not his fault. He can't press like mad offensively and at the same time be in position defensively. He needs to be covered in those circumstances. Players cover for each other all the time. In the CdR return leg against Real Sociedad he wasn't "in position" but it wasn't his fault. 2 vs. 1, Pique and Busquets should be able to prevent Vela from crossing the ball. Yet they can't because they are too soft.
 
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Gascav

Guest
It's just puzzling that Montoya is seen as a defensively sound fullback. In a way that people would even draw comparisons to Abidal. He really isn't. He is not as good as Alves going forward and that's all. And forget the assist stats, anyone who watches the games can see Alves dominating his flank and Montoya not even close to doing that. City away, Milan comeback, PSG away. In 2 of those 3 big games Alves was chosen the official MOTM and in the other one he played a very crucial role. Those are some of Barca's most recent CL knockout games. Superb Clasico performance as well. Defensively and offensively (DAT nutmeg humiliation). Montoya isn't even close to that kind of level and never will be. No idea why people rubbish Alves so much. Yes, occasionally there is space behind his back but that's not his fault. He can't press like mad offensively and at the same time be in position defensively. He needs to be covered in those circumstances. Players cover for each other all the time. In the CdR return leg against Real Sociedad he wasn't "in position" but it wasn't his fault. 2 vs. 1, Pique and Busquets should be able to prevent Vela from crossing the ball. Yet they can't because they are too soft.
This post :hooray:
 

Theconomist

New member
It's just puzzling that Montoya is seen as a defensively sound fullback. In a way that people would even draw comparisons to Abidal. He really isn't. He is not as good as Alves going forward and that's all. And forget the assist stats, anyone who watches the games can see Alves dominating his flank and Montoya not even close to doing that. City away, Milan comeback, PSG away. In 2 of those 3 big games Alves was chosen the official MOTM and in the other one he played a very crucial role. Those are some of Barca's most recent CL knockout games. Superb Clasico performance as well. Defensively and offensively (DAT nutmeg humiliation). Montoya isn't even close to that kind of level and never will be. No idea why people rubbish Alves so much. Yes, occasionally there is space behind his back but that's not his fault. He can't press like mad offensively and at the same time be in position defensively. He needs to be covered in those circumstances. Players cover for each other all the time. In the CdR return leg against Real Sociedad he wasn't "in position" but it wasn't his fault. 2 vs. 1, Pique and Busquets should be able to prevent Vela from crossing the ball. Yet they can't because they are too soft.

But Dani bare his disastrous season has been the best RB in the world since he came to Barcelona.
Montoya is very young, full backs don't become that good overnight. (Alaba is overrated, very good but no where near perfect).
I think Montoya still needs time to get better.
 

The Observer

New member
Well, I don't say sell him. He can still become a solid fullback. I wouldn't know who to replace him with anyway. The fullback market isn't exactly plastered with world class talents. I'm just puzzled that people want to sell Alves so Montoya can start. We would be severely weakened if that happened.
 

CatalinR10

Senior Member
Barcelona right back Martin Montoya (22), whose contract expires in June, will sign a renewal for 4 more years, until 2018. [sport]
 

Galning

Moderator
Because he will leave on a free otherwise and then people would facepalm because "omfg we could at least get a couple of M from his sale!!"
 

Saeed

New member
I really do not think Alves will go in summer. Dani has no competition soever from Martin. It is good to guaranty that he will be available for a replacement for Dani.
Montoya is fast in running, but he is still way too bad to be a Barca player. He lacks confidence and gets lost in critical positions.
Renewal is the best thing can happen to him right now. Let's see if he improve or that's the best he can do.
 
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Gascav

Guest
I really do not think Alves will go in summer. Dani has no competition soever from Martin. It is good to guaranty that he will be available for a replacement for Dani.
Montoya is fast in running, but he is still way too bad to be a Barca player. He lacks confidence and gets lost in critical positions.
Renewal is the best thing can happen to him right now. Let's see if he improve or that's the best he can do.
Why not loan him?
 
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Gascav

Guest
I'd rather we sell players than loaning them. Can't remember when was the last time we loaned a player only to get him back and put him in the first team.

Because we have never been good at loaning out our players with potential for starting. Look at what the loan is doing to rafinha and deulo
 

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