Ursegor
World Champion
How is it more balanced when Dortmund is doing in the Bundesliga what Barca is doing in La Liga? Dortmund 81 points. Schalke (3th in the table) 64 points.
Mats Hummels
- Thread starter Blaugrana94
- Start date
How is it more balanced when Dortmund is doing in the Bundesliga what Barca is doing in La Liga? Dortmund 81 points. Schalke (3th in the table) 64 points.
DennyCrane
Senior Member
You can't just compare first and third, then second and third.
Barca finished second with 30 points ahead of Valencia. Bayern (and NOT Dortmund) finished second in the Bundesliga with merely 9 points ahead of Schalke. That's how its more balanced.
Ursegor
World Champion
Looks rather imbalanced to me if Schalke can keep up with Bayern in the league and Dortmund finishes ahead of Bayern. Bayern is light years ahead of Schalke (and better than Dortmund, despite Dortmund being a bit of a boogey team for them recently). Dortmund is cruising the Bundesliga because the rest of the league is just weak enough that Dortmund can beat them all quite easily. But Bayern are actually much stronger. It's like putting Barca, Atletico Madrid and Valencia + 17 other teams on Granada level in a league. Barca, Atletico and Valencia would finish very close. Because all 3 are much stronger than the other 17 teams. And if Barca showed complacency they would lose that league to Atletico or Valencia. But that wouldn't tell the story how far ahead Barcelona actually is. If you added more quality teams in the Bundesliga and took out the cannon fodder (HSV, Augsburg, Mainz, Freiburg, Hoffenheim, Nürnberg and whatnot), Bayern would have more chances to beat the likes of Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Arsenal, Spurs etc. than Dortmund and the gap between Dortmund and Bayern would widen. I hope I could make my point clear. A team that finishes above Bayern in the league but goes out in the CL group stages with 4 points in a group with Marseille, Olympiacos and a weakened Arsenal side (lost 2-8 at Old Trafford at that time) puts question marks on the strength of the league. Schalke only conceded 14 goals all season at home but Athletic Bilbao put 5 past them in a single game. The 10th best team in La Liga. I have every right to question defenders which are conceding only 0.8 goals per game over a whole season in the Bundesliga but 5 against a midtable La Liga team. Leverkusen is another example. Runners-up in the Bundesliga the season before and then they concede 7 goals against Barca. I think there is a reason why Löw doesn't trust Dortmund players that much. Why not play Gündogan for example, the central midfielder of the Bundesliga champions but a completely unfit Schweinsteiger instead? Hummels got into the team just this year (and cost them). And that's because Mertesacker had that long injury.
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Ursegor
World Champion
Well, that's really ironic, because in the past 10 years La Liga teams have won 16 European Cups while Bundesliga teams have won ... nothing.
DennyCrane
Senior Member
1. So Bayern is better than Dortmund but Dortmund walks the league because the opposition is weak.
2. This whole idea with cannon-fodder teams speaks for itself. Grow up and learn some respect for the efforts of others or you'll fall flat on your face quite often.
3. And Bayern went to the final. Dortmund players were inexperienced on CL-level then. They dominated most of the sides but lost due to making simple-hearted mistakes, and yes, especially their defense played naive when counter-attacks came like against Marseille. What does that have to to with balance of the league though ?
4. They conceded 4 at home and drawed away. This is football not Fifa. Again, relevance for determining the imbalance within the Bundesliga ?
5. And Barca struggled heavily against them in Leverkusen. Yet again, relevance ?
6. Because Löw is known to stick to players he worked with in the past, Podolski for example. That includes fielding players that are unfit like Schweinsteiger or unable to fulfill their purpose like Kroos against Pirlo and he earns criticism for that A LOT in Germany.
You're evading the subject which is: Bundesliga is balanced/unbalanced. But yeah, you made your point clear. Bundesliga is shit, Dortmund is shit, Hummels is shit.
Ursegor
World Champion
1. Yes. And I explained why. Seems you haven't understood. So I'll explain it in a more simplistic way. Let's give teams a rating between 1 (worst) and 10 (best). So if you have a 10 rated team and a 6 rated team and 18 other 3 rated teams in a league, both the 10 and 6 rated teams will walk the league. Which doesn't mean that the 10 and 6 rated teams are equally strong though. It just means that there aren't enough teams in the league which are rated inbetween 6 and 10 to further separate these two teams (the 10 rated team would win against a 9 rated team more often than the 6 rated team and that would widen the gap to reflect the true strength). Which ultimately means that the whole league is rather weak. Capice?
2. No, you grow up. This is football, not EMO busniess. Cannon fodder = cannon fodder.
3. Yeah, nice excuse. Napoli or even APOEL were SUPER experienced when they made it past their group stages, eh? Napoli in the group of death as well. Dortmund had experience in the Europa League the season before (when they crashed out in the group stage against Sevilla). Conceding 12 goals in 6 games isn't due to "dominating and being unlucky" or inexperience. Dortmund just played like shit.
4. ???
5. LOOOL Barca struggled against Leverkusen? Leverkusen were parking the 747. Once they came out a bit in the second half they conceded 3 immediately.
6. Maybe because Löw is a REAL coach and not an armchair coach?
I'm not evading anything. I explained (twice now) in point 1 what I mean. And no, I didn't call Hummels or the Bundesliga shit. I called Hummels a prospect and the Bundesliga a nice league. Just not as strong.
2. No, you grow up. This is football, not EMO busniess. Cannon fodder = cannon fodder.
3. Yeah, nice excuse. Napoli or even APOEL were SUPER experienced when they made it past their group stages, eh? Napoli in the group of death as well. Dortmund had experience in the Europa League the season before (when they crashed out in the group stage against Sevilla). Conceding 12 goals in 6 games isn't due to "dominating and being unlucky" or inexperience. Dortmund just played like shit.
4. ???
5. LOOOL Barca struggled against Leverkusen? Leverkusen were parking the 747. Once they came out a bit in the second half they conceded 3 immediately.
6. Maybe because Löw is a REAL coach and not an armchair coach?
I'm not evading anything. I explained (twice now) in point 1 what I mean. And no, I didn't call Hummels or the Bundesliga shit. I called Hummels a prospect and the Bundesliga a nice league. Just not as strong.
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Paganinisrvnge
New member
All I know is that I wouldn't be so stressed out about the Clasico if we had bought Hummels instead of Song.
Beast
The Observer
Regarding Dortmund performance in the CL could be easily attributed to their coach more than anything.. it doesn't say a lot about the players
I mean i won't look beyond Inter under all their managers especially Mancini & the difference when Jose came in or Real Madrid under Pellegrini
Inter was walking Serie A and crashing out early while Milan won the CL during that time when they were shit in the league
their manager could be awesome for the known German league he knows the team and the tactics but Europe is a different beast .. it has nothing to do with their strength or the league strength
AnfieldEd
I am Leg End
How can you win 16 european cups in 10 years!!!
E
estranged
Guest
I think European cups means UCl + Europa League + Supercup etc.
AnfieldEd
I am Leg End
You say that but I believe Klopp is a very good potentially excellent manager.
Ursegor
World Champion
Good point (except "Real Madrid under Pellegrini", Pellegrini never had anything to say in your dressing room. He could have never started a CL game with 3 defensive midfielders like Jose. He had to play gung-ho to please the Bernabeu crowd and play players he didn't sign + Lyon has always been your boogey team anyway). But the point remains. Dortmund are doing in the Bundesliga what Barcelona are doing in La Liga. 4:0 Freiburg. 4:0 Augsburg. 5:1 Hamburg. 6:1 Köln. 5:2 Kaiserslautern. 5:1 Wolfsburg. They are manita-ing half of the league. But Dortmund are nowhere near Barcelona. NOWHERE. So how are they walking the Bundesliga like that if not for the general weakness of the Bundesliga? How strong can teams like Kaiserslautern, Köln, Wolfsburgs, Augsburg, Freiburg and Hamburg be if they concede between 4 to 6 goals to a team like Dortmund?!
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