Memphis Depay

[Leo_Messi]

Depay is a decent player although with clear limitations and that is about it. Was and will never be anything more than that. A fine market opportunity given the club?s financial situation so not much to complain about. Depay was never going to replace the goal contributions of Messi and Griezmann. However I suspect that even Haaland would look somewhat underwhelming in today?s version of Bar?a. Our entire collective starting with the manager is simply not good enough which tends to devaluate the few genuine talents (FDJ for example) rather than elevate them while genuine bums or has-beens appear even worse than they really are. Coupled that with a toxic club environment, countless of European humiliations year after year and as a result a long list of PTSD patients within the squad (our entire ?defensive spine spanning from ter Stegen, Piqu? to Busquets) and you are asking for trouble.

 

[serghei]

Depay is a decent player although with clear limitations and that is about it. Was and will never be anything more than that. A fine market opportunity given the club?s financial situation so not much to complain about. Depay was never going to replace the goal contributions of Messi and Griezmann. However I suspect that even Haaland would look somewhat underwhelming in today?s version of Bar?a. Our entire collective starting with the manager is simply not good enough which tends to devaluate the few genuine talents (FDJ for example) rather than elevate them while genuine bums or has-beens appear even worse than they really are. Coupled that with a toxic club environment, countless of European humiliations year after year and as a result a long list of PTSD patients within the squad (our entire ?defensive spine spanning from ter Stegen, Piqu? to Busquets) and you are asking for trouble.

Well said, nothing to add to that really.

 

[Bobo32]

There never was anything special about him, no one even claimed he was special...

The thing is that without Messi he is our only functional attacking player and people put unrealistic expectations on him... Decent player, but not one to carry this club...

I shouldn't lie and claim I put very high expectations on him, but I think it is very realistic that he should score and create more than Sergi Roberto OR play with a higher pass percentage than 65,9% (new low from yesterdays game), or even both at the same time to be completely honest.

But he gets to play each and every minute, escaping even the thought of being criticized it seems. When he gives the ball away like someone playing three levels above his own, it's still somehow Busquets fault when Atletico play two perfect fast passes on the outside, to some users on this forum. I don't know if it ever crossed Koemans mind that Depay could be at fault for something, but it doesn't seem like it.

 

[ajnotkeith]

I shouldn't lie and claim I put very high expectations on him, but I think it is very realistic that he should score and create more than Sergi Roberto OR play with a higher pass percentage than 65,9% (new low from yesterdays game), or even both at the same time to be completely honest.

But he gets to play each and every minute, escaping even the thought of being criticized it seems. When he gives the ball away like someone playing three levels above his own, it's still somehow Busquets fault when Atletico play two perfect fast passes on the outside, to some users on this forum. I don't know if it ever crossed Koemans mind that Depay could be at fault for something, but it doesn't seem like it.

You're correct. When your attackers are ineffectual and lose the ball a lot it puts pressure on the midfield and backline which is what I was getting at earlier in the thread by saying the team is a unit. Attackers are bad, lose the ball, midfield is slow and bad, can't win the ball back, defense is stranded and dealing with a ton of attackers, goal.

The problem is with Depay he is pretty good and would be good surrounded by good attackers, but he isn't good enough to carry a shit squad like Messi did obviously. When you have an out-of-position 17 year old who's barely played pro football and an out-of-position out-of-form Coutinho accompanying you on the wings it takes a top top player to shine through. Cut him some slack. He at least has the initiative to try and produces moments.

 

[mc_lovin]

It's hard to judge anyone properly in our current conditions and setup. It's pure chaos.

 

[Bobo32]

It's hard to judge anyone properly in our current conditions and setup. It's pure chaos.

He is a chaotic player.
As ajnotkeith said above, it puts strain on the rest of the team to have someone fail as much.
But he creates very little for it, he makes mistake after mistake but he isn't even really forceful or creating any problems. Yesterday he tried to dribble into 4 or 5 Atletico players, he feinted the first one a bit nicely and got through the next one too with a long touch, but then the third one could just say thanks and pick up the ball to start a counter. It is really terrible to see a player like this in Barcelona.

 

[Rory]

Players look at him like he's Messi. He picks up the ball and they just watch. If there was more movement from everyone there probably wouldn't be this heroball tendency in him. Whenever he gets it, it's almost like he's thinking "Well if I don't do something with it who else will"

 

[ajnotkeith]

Players look at him like he's Messi. He picks up the ball and they just watch. If there was more movement from everyone there probably wouldn't be this heroball tendency in him. Whenever he gets it, it's almost like he's thinking "Well if I don't do something with it who else will"

What I was getting at. He loses the ball a lot and has been very bad in the past few games but I get a sense nobody else is willing to do anything. Only Coutinho ironically gave me that sense.

Let's say he passes it to Nico or Busi or Gavi, what will they do, just pass it downwards to the next player? And then Coutinho will take a shot? No offensive players in the squad.

 

[mc_lovin]

Players look at him like he's Messi. He picks up the ball and they just watch. If there was more movement from everyone there probably wouldn't be this heroball tendency in him. Whenever he gets it, it's almost like he's thinking "Well if I don't do something with it who else will"

His role got inflated because we literally have no one else in attack at the moment. Ideally he should be the support striker for individually superior players on the wing.

[MENTION=29755]Bobo32[/MENTION]: The chaos is unfortunately not only down to him. The whole team looks a mess. Frenkie was RW ffs. Araujo looked like he played RB (or very wide CB) - with 4ATB. Dest was cutting inside. Coutinho and Gavi were some weird kind of free moving AM/winger hybrids. Both, Busquets and Nico, looked like a cross between DM and wide CM. You need to be a genius to make that work, and Koeman is not.

 

[ajnotkeith]

His role got inflated because we literally have no one else in attack at the moment. Ideally he should be the support striker for individually superior players on the wing.

[MENTION=29755]Bobo32[/MENTION]: The chaos is unfortunately not only down to him. The whole team looks a mess. Frenkie was RW ffs. Araujo looked like he played RB (or very wide CB) - with 4ATB. Dest was cutting inside. Coutinho and Gavi were some weird kind of free moving AM/winger hybrids. Both, Busquets and Nico, looked like a cross between DM and wide CM. You need to be a genius to make that work, and Koeman is not.

Seriously. Nobody seems to understand. Positionally and in profiles this is the most unbalanced squad ever.

 

[mc_lovin]

Seriously. Nobody seems to understand. Positionally and in profiles this is the most unbalanced squad ever.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The starting positions and roles changed consistently over the course of the game

Frenkie's evolution for example: RW-->2nd striker-->CM. Araujo ended up at CF How is anyone supposed to know what he should be doing?

 

[Bobo32]

His role got inflated because we literally have no one else in attack at the moment. Ideally he should be the support striker for individually superior players on the wing.

[MENTION=29755]Bobo32[/MENTION]: The chaos is unfortunately not only down to him. The whole team looks a mess. Frenkie was RW ffs. Araujo looked like he played RB (or very wide CB) - with 4ATB. Dest was cutting inside. Coutinho and Gavi were some weird kind of free moving AM/winger hybrids. Both, Busquets and Nico, looked like a cross between DM and wide CM. You need to be a genius to make that work, and Koeman is not.

Yeah, Koeman is obviously not the man for the job, something that was pretty clear this time last year already, when we had realized his vision of "4-2-4" didn't work so well even with Messi there.

In a sense, I am not against one player playing like Depay when the team is struggling so much to create, but the rest of the team needs to be very well set up in order to balance it, and it isn't, as you say.
I thought it looked decent in the beginning of the game yesterday, but Nico was superfluous, and Frenkie too tbh (he made a lot of good runs into the box though)
I don't think Depay would be better or look better when playing around better players, but his mistakes and weaknesses would only be more obvious.

 

[Bobo32]

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The starting positions and roles changed consistently over the course of the game

Frenkie's evolution for example: RW-->2nd striker-->CM. Araujo ended up at CF How is anyone supposed to know what he should be doing?

I listen to Sid Lowes podcast. He was talking a lot about simple things like this last year this time, how there was no width for example, but always with the caveat that Koeman obviously knows a lot more and has thought a lot more than someone like him (or us in this case). I will agree and I am a bit shy to judge Koeman too hard on the details, but a lot of his decisions seems to be so extremely simple-minded like something a lower league manager who gets his wage in hot-dogs would do.

What we can say for sure is that he doesn't create a well-functioning team.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Constantly changing positions and formation mid-game is very challenging, when Koeman does it it always just looks like it wasn't practiced at all.

I remember when Tuchel was at Mainz 05 there was a time where he would do this a lot, but it takes a lot of effort and good coaching to really make it work. It can overwhelm players very easily and Koeman doesn't strike me as that type of coach to pull it off.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The starting positions and roles changed consistently over the course of the game

Frenkie's evolution for example: RW-->2nd striker-->CM. Araujo ended up at CF How is anyone supposed to know what he should be doing?

Exactly. There is no system. You can see the constant chaos players play under. No real plan or tactic. Reacting to opponent in a way players are not used to. They need to have way better "standard" plan for players. They look clueless most of the time.